URL for this article is
http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/ivkovic1.htm
Serbian Minister of Science Speaks out:
An Interview with Bane Ivkovic
www.tenc.net
[Emperor's Clothes]
Bane Ivkovic is Serbian Minister of Science and Technology. He was
forced
from this position after the Oct. 5 coup d'etat.
Mr. Ivkovic had been in charge of the highly successful program of
rebuilding
bridges, factories and homes destroyed by the NATO bombing.
We interviewed Mr. Ivkovic at the end of October and again in early
November.
This is the first interview. The interviewer is Jared Israel, editor of
www.tenc.net
Interview with Bane Ivkovic
Israel: I understand you were in charge of reconstruction after the
bombing.
Ivkovic: Yes. For four years I had been Serbian Minister of Construction
and
then starting in 1998 I was Minister for Science and Technology. During
the
bombing I organized a special group to help the 130,000 workers left
jobless
by NATO bombing their factories. We wanted to do more than just rebuild;
we
tried at the same time to restructure our economy, to increase the
number of
small and medium enterprises. We were able to set up 1050 such
businesses.
This created 33,000 new jobs.
Israel: Private or public sector?
Ivkovic: Mainly private. The Ministry developed relations between the
[scientific and technical] Institutes and these displaced workers. We
collected 2900 plans for small and medium businesses, programs to
produce
goods using Serbian resources instead of importing these products. To
finance
these new businesses, after the bombing we collected money by asking
everyone
with a job to give one or two day's pay and using this as well as money
from
the Serbian government we offered the displaced workers five year loans
at
excellent rates so they could set up their own production facilities.
Israel: So these businesses were privately owned by groups of employees?
Ivkovic: Yes. Up until then we had relatively few small and medium
enterprises. We wanted to strengthen the small business sector,
especially in
the villages. It's our opinion that these small, profitable businesses
are
the way to stop the flow of young people to the towns.
Israel: Just to get clear, these enterprises were privately owned by the
people who worked there?
Ivkovic: Yes.
Israel: Not just by one man?
Ivkovic: No no no by the people. Each unemployed worker could take a
loan for
himself, but several workers could get a collective loan and apply it to
one
business. 50 of them could get 50 times more money.
Israel: So they could start something of some size.
Ivkovic: Yes, but it would be their own. Their own factory. Their own
enterprise.
Israel: You know the Western propaganda says Yugoslavia was run so that
a few
people made a lot of money and everybody else got nothing.
Ivkovic: It's not true. You must understand a couple of things here.
First of
all, there is private business in Serbia, and this is nothing new. After
1945
we had people who owned land in the villages, people who owned private
enterprises. Not so much in the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s. But in the
1970s and
1980s this became far more common. A lot of these people established
their
own small offices, markets, enterprises and factories and now I think
50% of
our economic life is in the private sector and it's a very profitable
private
sector. These owners are people of varying political viewpoints.
The second thing is, we have been under a United States imposed embargo
for 8
years and during that embargo some people who had previously been
criminals
went into business exporting or importing goods which were under
embargo, and
they made a lot of money. Those people are not the socialist party. We
are a
party of over 500,000 people, mainly ordinary working people. Of course
whenever a party is in power it attracts some opportunists, some who are
there for reasons other than principle; but those people have left us or
are
leaving us now and as for the ones who remain, what possible gain is
there in
it for them?
Foreign investment
Ivkovic: When I was Serbian Minister for Construction I proposed a
Federal
Law On Foreign investment. On the [Serbian] Republican level we have a
concession law and a law for ownership transformation. But then came the
embargo and we couldn't do as much as we wanted at that time.
Israel: So you want foreign investment?
Ivkovic: Yes, why not? In the past I was involved in negotiations with
several very powerful groups of foreign investors about concessions in
road
construction and electric power production. Unfortunately everything
that
happened with Kosovo and Metohija put a halt to those negotiations.
[Kosovo
and Metohija is the Serbian name for what the West calls 'Kosovo.']
Israel: I don't know if you read the piece that Chossudovsky and I wrote
about the IMF and the World Bank and their harmful effects.
Ivkovic: Yes.
Israel: We argued that when the IMF and the World Bank enter a country
it is
subjected to piracy - you know, basically stripped.
Ivkovic: It's a problem for me to express myself in English. The IMF and
the
World Bank have some special propositions which, how shall I say, cover
a
country with a very strong hand. This can put a country in a very bad
position. I prefer that foreign investors come here with their own
money. If
we were covered by the World Bank we would be in chains.
Israel: They're sharks.
Ivkovic: Yes. That is true. That is true. You see Bulgaria and Romania
are
now in a worse position than Yugoslavia. We had sanctions and we were
bombed
yet we are in a better position than Bulgaria and Romania because they
have
been put into IMF chains and now, in addition to being worse off, they
will
also have to repay loans for the next 20 or 30 years. Repay with
interest.
[The interview continued with the addition of a translator.]
Israel: Is it your opinion that the IMF and World Bank should be kept
out of
Yugoslavia?
Ivkovic: Yes. We've been living through hard times. Eight years of
sanctions
plus last year's bombardment made our lives very harsh. The level of
production in our country is 40% of 1990. We're certainly in a need of a
fresh injection of money. To help this situation we passed a Federal law
on
foreign investments and a law covering ownership transformation. And on
the
Republican level, the Republic of Serbia passed a law on foreign
concessions.
There are some related laws regarding taxes and customs regulations.
These
laws are designed to allow foreign investments but at the same time to
make
sure the profit drawn from such investments are reinvested in the
country.
Israel: So it can't be taken out?
Ivkovic: Right. We are by current law [i.e., laws passed before the
October
5th coup] open to foreign investments. We have developed a very
extensive and
detailed plan for utilizing our resources such as energy, roads,
highways,
railways and waterways and also agricultural land for
industrial-agricultural
exploitation. We had all these plans in place but the sanctions and last
year's bombing and destruction hindered our ability to go ahead.
Speaking as a citizen, I am inclined to accept capital or investment
coming
from corporations rather than from the International Monetary Fund and
World
Bank. It is my opinion that both the IMF and the World Bank set up
stringent
rules that bring a country close to colonial status.
Israel: Perhaps that's why they don't like you.
Ivkovic: At this time in particular it would be extremely dangerous for
these
two banks to enter our country. But corporations and other financial
groups
would be more welcome. We and they both would benefit.
We are still a very rich and resourceful country despite all our
difficulties
and ordeals. We have a huge amount of state and public assets that have
not
been privatized. In 1966 we sold Italian and Greek partners 49% of our
telecommunications industry. That brought in one billion 750 million
Deutschmark. About 800 million dollars.
Israel: Isn't that a little low for half your telecommunications
industry?
Ivkovic: Well I would say we did better than the Hungarians who sold
similar
facilities for a much larger portion of ownership and got less.
The electrical energy system and the ownership of electrical energy
assets,
meaning production and distribution, has not been privatized. For
example
consider the thermoelectric power plant called Kolubara. The state
invested
500,000,000 dollars in this plant. It's run on coal. There is room for
another three hundred million dollars investment, open to foreign
capital as
well.
Israel: Would you keep the majority of ownership?
Ivkovic: Look, Jared, this is an interesting deal. The investment would
be OK
if the foreign investors got 100% providing there was a time limit on
foreign
control. It could be five years; it could be ten years. It depends on
the
mutually accepted conditions. So the foreign investors could be given
the
biggest chunk providing their period of control was limited by mutual
agreement.
Regarding the oil industry, in our country, privatization hasn't touched
it
but it's a huge prospect for investments. The same goes for the
exploitation
of railroad traffic. Regarding the development of highway communications
there is great potential for foreign investment considering our
geostrategic
and commercial position in the Balkans, as a connection to the Middle
East.
We developed a privatization law regarding large state run facilities
like
the machine facility in Trstenik which used to manufacture hydraulic
equipment for Boeing. There are so many such valuable assets intact in
Serbia, untouched by privatization, free for very lucrative investments.
We
had that all worked out before the sanctions and aerial destruction
stopped
further progress.
We developed detailed plans that could apportion part of the profit from
these foreign investments into pension and other social funds so it
would be
just. At te same time our plans involve reinvestment of profit within
the
country.
Yugoslavia has a very rich pool, a highly educated working class and
technical class, ready to get to work, to produce.
Israel: If foreigners invest in Yugoslavia, and if in return they get a
facility which previously was socially owned, doesn't the country become
a
colony?
Ivkovic: We have legal restraints to prevent accepting conditions that
would
make us a colony. Foreign investors have to agree to abide by our laws
as
part of any deal.
Our country has around 2 billion dollars frozen in foreign banks as a
result
of the sanctions imposed on us and we would like to get this returned
with
interest accrued. We expect the international community to show
understanding
for our plight and to relieve us from credit and debts to some extent
and
give us some priority in that regard.
Israel: Are you saying you expect that or that in a just situation it
would
happen?
Ivkovic: That has been our request. We would request these concessions
but
I'm personally pretty pessimistic about them doing it.
Israel: When you say you're going to request these concessions, or when
you
say that you have these laws, you beg the question of the political
situation, this semi-coup d'etat.
Let me spell out my own view.
I see President Kostunica as a fundamentally illegal figure who is and
could
only be in power because of international intrigue which created a
subversive
apparatus that committed crimes against people and property. People in
government and business have been intimidated and forced to sign
documents
under pressure, turning state or private property over to what amounts
to
thugs and gangsters, and this has been glorified by the Western media
which
has suddenly discovered that it loves popular revolutions. In the
present
situation to give this interview is an act of heroism. Therefore you are
not
talking about carrying out these measures in the present tense. You are
talking about what the legal government had planned. A plan you would
like to
return to. Is that correct?
Ivkovic: Let us say that in the present circumstances of instability and
turmoil foreign investors may not be much attracted to our country.
Israel: Sharks will be attracted. Sharks like turmoil. It justifies an
iron
hand and you can steal a lot in the midst of confusion.
.Ivkovic: In regard to what you say, the Bulgarian and Romanian examples
are
very educational for our future. I agree that the coup d'etat was well
organized and conducted with the participation of certain parts of the
so-called international community.
Israel: Isn't 'international community' a great euphemism? The United
States,
Germany, Britain and a few hangers-on = the international community. In
'Der
Spiegel' magazine they had this article which reported all of them
boasting
and competing over how much money they gave the 'Yugoslav democratic
process.' Nothing like a well-financed democratic process. Of course the
article said the U.S. government gave, but then it quoted the Germans
saying,
'We gave too!' and then Norway piped in: "Us too, us too!" This was the
Oct.
7 'Der Spiegel'. The article also said that Kostunica was actually
picked to
run for President by U.S. Secretary of State Albright and German Foreign
Minister Fischer at a meeting, I believe it was in December.
You know, Yugoslavia is a beautiful fish and all the sharks want a
chunk. So
even though it politically hurts their various proxies in DOS [the
pro-Western parties that now control the Yugoslav government] and the
civil
society groups and the independent media, even though having these
foreign
powers boast that they funded these guys hurts them, the foreign powers
have
to boast because they all want to stake their claim.
So the sharks say, "We did it!" and meanwhile their local quislings say
"No
no, we're independent! We resent your help!" And then the sharks say
"Yes!
You're right! You're independent! We don't even like you because you are
extremely nationalistic!" You see?
Ivkovic: [Laughs] I see everything. Each is striving each to get a head
of
the others. They made such a grave mistake. They boasted that they
planned
the details of this coup d'etat five or six months before it took place
which
means of course that the coup had nothing to do with the outcome of the
Presidential elections.
Factors Leading up to the Coup
Ivkovic: Unfortunately, the proper authorities did not counter this
vicious
plan. We know that Mr. Montgomery, the US envoy in Budapest, provided an
immense pool of money for the coup. Money flowed in like water. But
these
illegal activities were not properly dealt with.
There are two more things I must say. The Socialist Party made some
mistakes
in the election campaign. Apart from that and the unprecedented external
interference, the economic sanctions and the NATO bombardment had a big
effect. They caused the standard of living to drop considerably and at
the
same time, because of the bombardment we had to apportion much of the
budget,
which otherwise would have gone for salaries for teachers, professors
and
other social employees, into rebuilding bridges, roads and
infrastructure
which the bombing destroyed, as well as building housing and setting up
businesses. This created a lot of dissatisfaction. The diversion of
resources, amidst harsh circumstances, was cunningly exploited by the
DOS
people leading up to and during the election, providing a social basis
for
carrying out the coup d'etat.
Political Situation Since the Coup
Ivkovic: The elections were Federal [Yugoslav] but the coup d'etat
affected
the Republican structure as well.
Israel: How?
Ivkovic: The opposition commandos forced their way into offices and
production facilities or government facilities in a systematic way,
kicked
out the tenants or official employees and replaced them with their own.
And
the Interior Ministry authorities did not interfere..
Israel: Is that terror still going on?
Ivkovic: Because of all these circumstances we had to compromise our
position
and accept DOS as a part of the administration. They filled up some
departments they'd never been in before. But we insisted that they agree
to
return all the kicked-out officials to their positions again, to restore
the
condition of legality and order we had before.
Israel: Has that happened?
Ivkovic: This is on the promise level now.
Israel: Who made the promise and what did the Socialist Party give in
exchange?
Ivkovic: The agreement was signed by Kostunica for DOS, by the President
of
the Republic of Serbia, Milutinovic, from the Socialist Party and by the
Serbian Renewal Party. The Socialists let DOS into Serbian government
positions and in exchange DOS promised to restore order and return all
those
who had been kicked out to their positions.
Israel: Have they been returned?
Ivkovic: Well there have been no returns but they did stop some of the
harassment. It's amazing how they persecute. They have developed an
atmosphere of suspicion, spying, investigation. Everybody is suspicious,
everyone is investigating everyone else. The most critical problem is
the
media outlets. It's much worse than what they claimed when the Socialist
Party was in power. I think many journalists will be kicked out and left
jobless.
Effects on the Press
In the past we could buy Politika and Politika Ekspres, two major
Belgrade
papers pulling to the Left. At the same time we could purchase Glas,
which
means Voice, and Blic, both on the Right, and we used to buy Novosti,
'Evening News' in the Center. So everybody had a chance to find the
truth.
Now journalists will be jobless because we have just one paper: all
papers
publish the same stories, written the same. You can switch 20 TV
channels and
you just see DOS.
I watch only TV ANEM and listen to radio B2-92. It used to be the most
fierce
opposition voice; to be honest they are still in opposition; they are
the
only station I can go and talk on. Also the other radio, student radio,
called INDEX.
Israel: That's wacky. B2-92 is funded by the U.S.
Ivkovic: That's right. But now they are the only outlet for the truth.
Israel: Unbelievable.
Ivkovic: On the TV station ANEM the journalists seem somewhat
independent.
Israel: But that was funded by the National Endowment for Democracy.
Ivkovic: Yes yes yes. Jared, imagine what the other TV outlets are like
when
these two are considered the most open to different views.
Israel: Sounds like the U.S.
Ivkovic: [Laughs.]
Jared: Here's my concern. In terms of this agreement that Milutinovic
has
signed, this DOS promise to restore law and order, I am afraid that DOS'
masters, the US and Germany, want the job finished. The big problem the
pro-U.S. and pro-German forces have is they didn't succeed in turning
the
army. Now they want to get into a position where they can take more
extreme
action.
Ivkovic: Yes that's also my major concern: how the army will position
itself.
In our country an open market is the place where all the politics are
loudly
and openly expressed but now the market is silent - no whisper - people
are
very depressed - they move from one channel on the radio and TV to
another
and they see the same exact news presented in the same way and now it is
dawning on them where they have arrived.
We have agreed to elections for the Serbian Parliament, for December
23rd.
Israel: Won't those elections take place in a situation where the
parties
opposed to Kostunica have no media?
Ivkovic: That is quite correct. And these elections were initiated under
heavy pressure. We have no media access. Holding these elections a year
earlier than required was agreed to under pressure. Following the coup
d'etat
pressure was brought to bear on the Republican level regarding
Parliament and
the Serbian government.
Israel: So all the anti-DOS parties, the Socialist Party, the
nationalists,
the Radical Party and others - all their media is gone?
Ivkovic: They are allowed one hour a day. DOS seized all TV and radio
outlets
with armed units. There are only a few left untouched, a few newspapers,
a
few TV and radio stations in the interior.
Israel: But they haven't seized control of the Army by force. Is that
correct?
Ivkovic: There have been no changes in the Army ranks so far.
Israel: Aren't there laws in Yugoslavia that make it illegal for foreign
agents like Djindjic to take money from foreign countries and distribute
it
to over-throw the government?
Ivkovic: Of course. It's all punishable under the law.
Israel: In other words since the so-called civil society groups like the
Committee for Free and Fair Elections, the G-17 so called economists,
the
Women in Black, you know Vesna Pesic and the others, the Civic Union
gang,
this Mayor Ilic from Cacak - on the internet a researcher found news
articles
where he is described as meeting with U.S. Special Balkans Robert
Gelbard
seven times - when you have all these groups funded and organized and
trained
by the U.S. and Germany with massive foreign bribes, why were these
foreign
agents permitted to operate? Is there any country in the world where
such
people would not have been jailed?
Ivkovic: Jared, I agree this is a very strange situation. Why some
people in
the Ministry of the Interior did not do the job, as required by the law,
remains to be investigated.
***
Further reading
Concerning the terror directed against socialists and nationalists since
the
Oct. 5 coup, please see:
* 'On the list, they had me marked as a nationalist' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/onthelist.htm
Interview conducted the day before the Oct. 5 coup.
* 'These Djindjic people are brown shirts' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/djindjic.htm
An interview conducted after the Oct. 5 coup.
* 'Reign of Terror in Serbia', at
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/attack.htm
Statement of Serbian Socialist Party on nationwide attack on their
offices.
For more on the general situation in Yugoslavia now, see:
Concerning the U.S. creation of a subversive apparatus in Yugoslavia,
see
'U.S. Arrogance and Yugoslav Elections' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/engl.htm
For more on what's been happening in Yugoslavia now, see:
* 'Djindjic Calls for Complete Yugoslav Submission to U.S.' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/submit.htm
Discusses the consequences of turning Yugoslavia into a U.S.
protectorate
* 'The International Monetary Fund And The Yugoslav Elections' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/1.htm
On the G-17 group of economists and what they have planned for
Yugoslavia.
* 'Kostunica Coalition Drives Up Prices & Blames...Milosevic' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/chuss/triples.htm
***
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http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/ivkovic1.htm
Serbian Minister of Science Speaks out:
An Interview with Bane Ivkovic
www.tenc.net
[Emperor's Clothes]
Bane Ivkovic is Serbian Minister of Science and Technology. He was
forced
from this position after the Oct. 5 coup d'etat.
Mr. Ivkovic had been in charge of the highly successful program of
rebuilding
bridges, factories and homes destroyed by the NATO bombing.
We interviewed Mr. Ivkovic at the end of October and again in early
November.
This is the first interview. The interviewer is Jared Israel, editor of
www.tenc.net
Interview with Bane Ivkovic
Israel: I understand you were in charge of reconstruction after the
bombing.
Ivkovic: Yes. For four years I had been Serbian Minister of Construction
and
then starting in 1998 I was Minister for Science and Technology. During
the
bombing I organized a special group to help the 130,000 workers left
jobless
by NATO bombing their factories. We wanted to do more than just rebuild;
we
tried at the same time to restructure our economy, to increase the
number of
small and medium enterprises. We were able to set up 1050 such
businesses.
This created 33,000 new jobs.
Israel: Private or public sector?
Ivkovic: Mainly private. The Ministry developed relations between the
[scientific and technical] Institutes and these displaced workers. We
collected 2900 plans for small and medium businesses, programs to
produce
goods using Serbian resources instead of importing these products. To
finance
these new businesses, after the bombing we collected money by asking
everyone
with a job to give one or two day's pay and using this as well as money
from
the Serbian government we offered the displaced workers five year loans
at
excellent rates so they could set up their own production facilities.
Israel: So these businesses were privately owned by groups of employees?
Ivkovic: Yes. Up until then we had relatively few small and medium
enterprises. We wanted to strengthen the small business sector,
especially in
the villages. It's our opinion that these small, profitable businesses
are
the way to stop the flow of young people to the towns.
Israel: Just to get clear, these enterprises were privately owned by the
people who worked there?
Ivkovic: Yes.
Israel: Not just by one man?
Ivkovic: No no no by the people. Each unemployed worker could take a
loan for
himself, but several workers could get a collective loan and apply it to
one
business. 50 of them could get 50 times more money.
Israel: So they could start something of some size.
Ivkovic: Yes, but it would be their own. Their own factory. Their own
enterprise.
Israel: You know the Western propaganda says Yugoslavia was run so that
a few
people made a lot of money and everybody else got nothing.
Ivkovic: It's not true. You must understand a couple of things here.
First of
all, there is private business in Serbia, and this is nothing new. After
1945
we had people who owned land in the villages, people who owned private
enterprises. Not so much in the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s. But in the
1970s and
1980s this became far more common. A lot of these people established
their
own small offices, markets, enterprises and factories and now I think
50% of
our economic life is in the private sector and it's a very profitable
private
sector. These owners are people of varying political viewpoints.
The second thing is, we have been under a United States imposed embargo
for 8
years and during that embargo some people who had previously been
criminals
went into business exporting or importing goods which were under
embargo, and
they made a lot of money. Those people are not the socialist party. We
are a
party of over 500,000 people, mainly ordinary working people. Of course
whenever a party is in power it attracts some opportunists, some who are
there for reasons other than principle; but those people have left us or
are
leaving us now and as for the ones who remain, what possible gain is
there in
it for them?
Foreign investment
Ivkovic: When I was Serbian Minister for Construction I proposed a
Federal
Law On Foreign investment. On the [Serbian] Republican level we have a
concession law and a law for ownership transformation. But then came the
embargo and we couldn't do as much as we wanted at that time.
Israel: So you want foreign investment?
Ivkovic: Yes, why not? In the past I was involved in negotiations with
several very powerful groups of foreign investors about concessions in
road
construction and electric power production. Unfortunately everything
that
happened with Kosovo and Metohija put a halt to those negotiations.
[Kosovo
and Metohija is the Serbian name for what the West calls 'Kosovo.']
Israel: I don't know if you read the piece that Chossudovsky and I wrote
about the IMF and the World Bank and their harmful effects.
Ivkovic: Yes.
Israel: We argued that when the IMF and the World Bank enter a country
it is
subjected to piracy - you know, basically stripped.
Ivkovic: It's a problem for me to express myself in English. The IMF and
the
World Bank have some special propositions which, how shall I say, cover
a
country with a very strong hand. This can put a country in a very bad
position. I prefer that foreign investors come here with their own
money. If
we were covered by the World Bank we would be in chains.
Israel: They're sharks.
Ivkovic: Yes. That is true. That is true. You see Bulgaria and Romania
are
now in a worse position than Yugoslavia. We had sanctions and we were
bombed
yet we are in a better position than Bulgaria and Romania because they
have
been put into IMF chains and now, in addition to being worse off, they
will
also have to repay loans for the next 20 or 30 years. Repay with
interest.
[The interview continued with the addition of a translator.]
Israel: Is it your opinion that the IMF and World Bank should be kept
out of
Yugoslavia?
Ivkovic: Yes. We've been living through hard times. Eight years of
sanctions
plus last year's bombardment made our lives very harsh. The level of
production in our country is 40% of 1990. We're certainly in a need of a
fresh injection of money. To help this situation we passed a Federal law
on
foreign investments and a law covering ownership transformation. And on
the
Republican level, the Republic of Serbia passed a law on foreign
concessions.
There are some related laws regarding taxes and customs regulations.
These
laws are designed to allow foreign investments but at the same time to
make
sure the profit drawn from such investments are reinvested in the
country.
Israel: So it can't be taken out?
Ivkovic: Right. We are by current law [i.e., laws passed before the
October
5th coup] open to foreign investments. We have developed a very
extensive and
detailed plan for utilizing our resources such as energy, roads,
highways,
railways and waterways and also agricultural land for
industrial-agricultural
exploitation. We had all these plans in place but the sanctions and last
year's bombing and destruction hindered our ability to go ahead.
Speaking as a citizen, I am inclined to accept capital or investment
coming
from corporations rather than from the International Monetary Fund and
World
Bank. It is my opinion that both the IMF and the World Bank set up
stringent
rules that bring a country close to colonial status.
Israel: Perhaps that's why they don't like you.
Ivkovic: At this time in particular it would be extremely dangerous for
these
two banks to enter our country. But corporations and other financial
groups
would be more welcome. We and they both would benefit.
We are still a very rich and resourceful country despite all our
difficulties
and ordeals. We have a huge amount of state and public assets that have
not
been privatized. In 1966 we sold Italian and Greek partners 49% of our
telecommunications industry. That brought in one billion 750 million
Deutschmark. About 800 million dollars.
Israel: Isn't that a little low for half your telecommunications
industry?
Ivkovic: Well I would say we did better than the Hungarians who sold
similar
facilities for a much larger portion of ownership and got less.
The electrical energy system and the ownership of electrical energy
assets,
meaning production and distribution, has not been privatized. For
example
consider the thermoelectric power plant called Kolubara. The state
invested
500,000,000 dollars in this plant. It's run on coal. There is room for
another three hundred million dollars investment, open to foreign
capital as
well.
Israel: Would you keep the majority of ownership?
Ivkovic: Look, Jared, this is an interesting deal. The investment would
be OK
if the foreign investors got 100% providing there was a time limit on
foreign
control. It could be five years; it could be ten years. It depends on
the
mutually accepted conditions. So the foreign investors could be given
the
biggest chunk providing their period of control was limited by mutual
agreement.
Regarding the oil industry, in our country, privatization hasn't touched
it
but it's a huge prospect for investments. The same goes for the
exploitation
of railroad traffic. Regarding the development of highway communications
there is great potential for foreign investment considering our
geostrategic
and commercial position in the Balkans, as a connection to the Middle
East.
We developed a privatization law regarding large state run facilities
like
the machine facility in Trstenik which used to manufacture hydraulic
equipment for Boeing. There are so many such valuable assets intact in
Serbia, untouched by privatization, free for very lucrative investments.
We
had that all worked out before the sanctions and aerial destruction
stopped
further progress.
We developed detailed plans that could apportion part of the profit from
these foreign investments into pension and other social funds so it
would be
just. At te same time our plans involve reinvestment of profit within
the
country.
Yugoslavia has a very rich pool, a highly educated working class and
technical class, ready to get to work, to produce.
Israel: If foreigners invest in Yugoslavia, and if in return they get a
facility which previously was socially owned, doesn't the country become
a
colony?
Ivkovic: We have legal restraints to prevent accepting conditions that
would
make us a colony. Foreign investors have to agree to abide by our laws
as
part of any deal.
Our country has around 2 billion dollars frozen in foreign banks as a
result
of the sanctions imposed on us and we would like to get this returned
with
interest accrued. We expect the international community to show
understanding
for our plight and to relieve us from credit and debts to some extent
and
give us some priority in that regard.
Israel: Are you saying you expect that or that in a just situation it
would
happen?
Ivkovic: That has been our request. We would request these concessions
but
I'm personally pretty pessimistic about them doing it.
Israel: When you say you're going to request these concessions, or when
you
say that you have these laws, you beg the question of the political
situation, this semi-coup d'etat.
Let me spell out my own view.
I see President Kostunica as a fundamentally illegal figure who is and
could
only be in power because of international intrigue which created a
subversive
apparatus that committed crimes against people and property. People in
government and business have been intimidated and forced to sign
documents
under pressure, turning state or private property over to what amounts
to
thugs and gangsters, and this has been glorified by the Western media
which
has suddenly discovered that it loves popular revolutions. In the
present
situation to give this interview is an act of heroism. Therefore you are
not
talking about carrying out these measures in the present tense. You are
talking about what the legal government had planned. A plan you would
like to
return to. Is that correct?
Ivkovic: Let us say that in the present circumstances of instability and
turmoil foreign investors may not be much attracted to our country.
Israel: Sharks will be attracted. Sharks like turmoil. It justifies an
iron
hand and you can steal a lot in the midst of confusion.
.Ivkovic: In regard to what you say, the Bulgarian and Romanian examples
are
very educational for our future. I agree that the coup d'etat was well
organized and conducted with the participation of certain parts of the
so-called international community.
Israel: Isn't 'international community' a great euphemism? The United
States,
Germany, Britain and a few hangers-on = the international community. In
'Der
Spiegel' magazine they had this article which reported all of them
boasting
and competing over how much money they gave the 'Yugoslav democratic
process.' Nothing like a well-financed democratic process. Of course the
article said the U.S. government gave, but then it quoted the Germans
saying,
'We gave too!' and then Norway piped in: "Us too, us too!" This was the
Oct.
7 'Der Spiegel'. The article also said that Kostunica was actually
picked to
run for President by U.S. Secretary of State Albright and German Foreign
Minister Fischer at a meeting, I believe it was in December.
You know, Yugoslavia is a beautiful fish and all the sharks want a
chunk. So
even though it politically hurts their various proxies in DOS [the
pro-Western parties that now control the Yugoslav government] and the
civil
society groups and the independent media, even though having these
foreign
powers boast that they funded these guys hurts them, the foreign powers
have
to boast because they all want to stake their claim.
So the sharks say, "We did it!" and meanwhile their local quislings say
"No
no, we're independent! We resent your help!" And then the sharks say
"Yes!
You're right! You're independent! We don't even like you because you are
extremely nationalistic!" You see?
Ivkovic: [Laughs] I see everything. Each is striving each to get a head
of
the others. They made such a grave mistake. They boasted that they
planned
the details of this coup d'etat five or six months before it took place
which
means of course that the coup had nothing to do with the outcome of the
Presidential elections.
Factors Leading up to the Coup
Ivkovic: Unfortunately, the proper authorities did not counter this
vicious
plan. We know that Mr. Montgomery, the US envoy in Budapest, provided an
immense pool of money for the coup. Money flowed in like water. But
these
illegal activities were not properly dealt with.
There are two more things I must say. The Socialist Party made some
mistakes
in the election campaign. Apart from that and the unprecedented external
interference, the economic sanctions and the NATO bombardment had a big
effect. They caused the standard of living to drop considerably and at
the
same time, because of the bombardment we had to apportion much of the
budget,
which otherwise would have gone for salaries for teachers, professors
and
other social employees, into rebuilding bridges, roads and
infrastructure
which the bombing destroyed, as well as building housing and setting up
businesses. This created a lot of dissatisfaction. The diversion of
resources, amidst harsh circumstances, was cunningly exploited by the
DOS
people leading up to and during the election, providing a social basis
for
carrying out the coup d'etat.
Political Situation Since the Coup
Ivkovic: The elections were Federal [Yugoslav] but the coup d'etat
affected
the Republican structure as well.
Israel: How?
Ivkovic: The opposition commandos forced their way into offices and
production facilities or government facilities in a systematic way,
kicked
out the tenants or official employees and replaced them with their own.
And
the Interior Ministry authorities did not interfere..
Israel: Is that terror still going on?
Ivkovic: Because of all these circumstances we had to compromise our
position
and accept DOS as a part of the administration. They filled up some
departments they'd never been in before. But we insisted that they agree
to
return all the kicked-out officials to their positions again, to restore
the
condition of legality and order we had before.
Israel: Has that happened?
Ivkovic: This is on the promise level now.
Israel: Who made the promise and what did the Socialist Party give in
exchange?
Ivkovic: The agreement was signed by Kostunica for DOS, by the President
of
the Republic of Serbia, Milutinovic, from the Socialist Party and by the
Serbian Renewal Party. The Socialists let DOS into Serbian government
positions and in exchange DOS promised to restore order and return all
those
who had been kicked out to their positions.
Israel: Have they been returned?
Ivkovic: Well there have been no returns but they did stop some of the
harassment. It's amazing how they persecute. They have developed an
atmosphere of suspicion, spying, investigation. Everybody is suspicious,
everyone is investigating everyone else. The most critical problem is
the
media outlets. It's much worse than what they claimed when the Socialist
Party was in power. I think many journalists will be kicked out and left
jobless.
Effects on the Press
In the past we could buy Politika and Politika Ekspres, two major
Belgrade
papers pulling to the Left. At the same time we could purchase Glas,
which
means Voice, and Blic, both on the Right, and we used to buy Novosti,
'Evening News' in the Center. So everybody had a chance to find the
truth.
Now journalists will be jobless because we have just one paper: all
papers
publish the same stories, written the same. You can switch 20 TV
channels and
you just see DOS.
I watch only TV ANEM and listen to radio B2-92. It used to be the most
fierce
opposition voice; to be honest they are still in opposition; they are
the
only station I can go and talk on. Also the other radio, student radio,
called INDEX.
Israel: That's wacky. B2-92 is funded by the U.S.
Ivkovic: That's right. But now they are the only outlet for the truth.
Israel: Unbelievable.
Ivkovic: On the TV station ANEM the journalists seem somewhat
independent.
Israel: But that was funded by the National Endowment for Democracy.
Ivkovic: Yes yes yes. Jared, imagine what the other TV outlets are like
when
these two are considered the most open to different views.
Israel: Sounds like the U.S.
Ivkovic: [Laughs.]
Jared: Here's my concern. In terms of this agreement that Milutinovic
has
signed, this DOS promise to restore law and order, I am afraid that DOS'
masters, the US and Germany, want the job finished. The big problem the
pro-U.S. and pro-German forces have is they didn't succeed in turning
the
army. Now they want to get into a position where they can take more
extreme
action.
Ivkovic: Yes that's also my major concern: how the army will position
itself.
In our country an open market is the place where all the politics are
loudly
and openly expressed but now the market is silent - no whisper - people
are
very depressed - they move from one channel on the radio and TV to
another
and they see the same exact news presented in the same way and now it is
dawning on them where they have arrived.
We have agreed to elections for the Serbian Parliament, for December
23rd.
Israel: Won't those elections take place in a situation where the
parties
opposed to Kostunica have no media?
Ivkovic: That is quite correct. And these elections were initiated under
heavy pressure. We have no media access. Holding these elections a year
earlier than required was agreed to under pressure. Following the coup
d'etat
pressure was brought to bear on the Republican level regarding
Parliament and
the Serbian government.
Israel: So all the anti-DOS parties, the Socialist Party, the
nationalists,
the Radical Party and others - all their media is gone?
Ivkovic: They are allowed one hour a day. DOS seized all TV and radio
outlets
with armed units. There are only a few left untouched, a few newspapers,
a
few TV and radio stations in the interior.
Israel: But they haven't seized control of the Army by force. Is that
correct?
Ivkovic: There have been no changes in the Army ranks so far.
Israel: Aren't there laws in Yugoslavia that make it illegal for foreign
agents like Djindjic to take money from foreign countries and distribute
it
to over-throw the government?
Ivkovic: Of course. It's all punishable under the law.
Israel: In other words since the so-called civil society groups like the
Committee for Free and Fair Elections, the G-17 so called economists,
the
Women in Black, you know Vesna Pesic and the others, the Civic Union
gang,
this Mayor Ilic from Cacak - on the internet a researcher found news
articles
where he is described as meeting with U.S. Special Balkans Robert
Gelbard
seven times - when you have all these groups funded and organized and
trained
by the U.S. and Germany with massive foreign bribes, why were these
foreign
agents permitted to operate? Is there any country in the world where
such
people would not have been jailed?
Ivkovic: Jared, I agree this is a very strange situation. Why some
people in
the Ministry of the Interior did not do the job, as required by the law,
remains to be investigated.
***
Further reading
Concerning the terror directed against socialists and nationalists since
the
Oct. 5 coup, please see:
* 'On the list, they had me marked as a nationalist' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/onthelist.htm
Interview conducted the day before the Oct. 5 coup.
* 'These Djindjic people are brown shirts' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/djindjic.htm
An interview conducted after the Oct. 5 coup.
* 'Reign of Terror in Serbia', at
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/attack.htm
Statement of Serbian Socialist Party on nationwide attack on their
offices.
For more on the general situation in Yugoslavia now, see:
Concerning the U.S. creation of a subversive apparatus in Yugoslavia,
see
'U.S. Arrogance and Yugoslav Elections' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/engl.htm
For more on what's been happening in Yugoslavia now, see:
* 'Djindjic Calls for Complete Yugoslav Submission to U.S.' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/submit.htm
Discusses the consequences of turning Yugoslavia into a U.S.
protectorate
* 'The International Monetary Fund And The Yugoslav Elections' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/1.htm
On the G-17 group of economists and what they have planned for
Yugoslavia.
* 'Kostunica Coalition Drives Up Prices & Blames...Milosevic' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/chuss/triples.htm
***
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