The URL for this article is http://emperors-clothes.com/milo/tremb.htm
Send this article to a friend!
www.tenc.net
[Emperor's Clothes]
Invited Lawyers Await 'Permission' to See Milosevic
by Jared Israel [7 July 2001]
I caught up with the lawyers Chris Black and Andre Tremblay yesterday by
phone. President Slobodan Milosevic had requested to see them so they
flew
to the Netherlands on Thursday and are now waiting for officials at the
'War Crimes Tribunal' to approve their visit. They should have an answer
Monday at noon, Dutch time. (1)
The trip has received much coverage, some accurate, some not. Mr. Black
said the 'Toronto Star' had entirely misquoted him, misrepresenting the
reason for his trip to The Hague, making it sound as if he wanted to
pressure President Milosevic. Said ChrisBlack:
"The Committee to Defend Milosevic and its lawyers have nothing but
admiration for what Mr. Milsoevic did during his confrontation with the
Tribunal and we are going to the Hague to help him any way he sees fit."
The BBC (pleasant surprise!) got the story right:
"Two Canadian lawyers are travelling to the International War Crimes
Tribunal at The Hague at the request of the former Yugoslav President
Slobodan Milosevic.
"The lawyers are part of an international support committee that
considers
Mr Milosevic a political prisoner.
"Formed in Berlin in March, the International Committee to Defend
Slobodan
Milosevic is made up of 200 lawyers, writers and intellectuals.
"One of the lawyers, Christopher Black, said he was going there on
behalf
of the group to see the conditions of Mr Milosevic's detention and
discuss
any legal matters he wished to raise.
"At his first appearance at the tribunal earlier this week, the former
Yugoslav leader declined to ask for defence lawyers and refused to enter
a
plea on war crimes charges....
"Mr Black, accompanied by his colleague Andre Tremblay, refused to
speculate about whether they would eventually represent Mr Milosevic."
(BBC
News, July 6, 2001)
Things are not always handled so objectively. Here's a report I wrote
about
an interview the BBC had with Chris Black on July 3rd.
CHRIS BLACK, ABANDONED
It's a Free World unless you're too free with your opinions. Chris Black
reports on an interview with the BBC, 9AM Greenwich Mean Time.
Black: I had a discussion with the producer two hours before the
interview.
Everything seemed OK. When the program comes on, I don't recall the
gentleman's name, but he was taking a very strong pro-NATO view.
Israel: That's no gentleman.
Chris: It starts with a lead-in. There's some Serbian person they found
to
trash Milosevic and say he has to answer for his 'crimes'. The usual.
And
then the Serb says, "All Serbs are responsible because we voted for
him."
That seemed to me a very dangerous sentiment. First the assertion of
crimes. He offered nothing to back it up but people would think, "It's a
Serb saying this, so it must be true." And then his clincher: all Serbs
are
guilty. He says, "We shouldn't believe in collective responsibility."
But
then he says, "All Serbs are responsible."
So then they jump to me and the BBC guys says, "So Mr. Black do you
think
he's going to get a fair trial at the Tribunal?"
And I told him bluntly, "No," and explained why: "It's a NATO court, its
purpose is to justify NATO's flagrant aggression."
And then he cuts in and says, "Surely you would admit that there are
crimes
he has to answer for?"
The 'surely' is where you're expected to cave; the pressure is for you
to
say, "Well of course I'm not saying that!" But I said. "No. Nobody has
seen
any evidence."
And he said, "Oh come on now, there is massive evidence proving his
guilt.
It's all been proven in the media. We've had it on the BBC."
And I said, "That's fluff. There's nothing solid to back it up. If they
had
anything solid they would have produced it by now. It's all fabrications
that disappear when you examine them."
And he said, "How can you make such a sweeping statement like that?"
And I said, "Just as you made your sweeping statement, I have a right to
make my own sweeping statement. The purpose of this court is to justify
NATO's aggression against Yugoslavia to their own domestic populations.
To
justify that NATO had the right to bomb this poor country."
And he said, "But surely you would agree he can get a fair hearing!"
And I said, 'But surely I would not agree. He's been convicted in
advance."
And he said "How? How can you say that? These are only charges,
allegations. There's been no presumption of guilt. Who has convicted
him?"
And I said, "He has been convicted in the media."
He said: "How can you say that?"
I said: "You said it."
He said: "When?"
I said: "One minute ago. You asked me how I could deny he's guilty when
it's all been proven right in the media. Including the BBC. Your words."
That was when the phone went "Click" and there was 15 seconds of silence
and then a woman came on and said, "Well thank you, then. Good bye."
Jared: That's it? Not even flowers?
Chris: Nothing.
Jared: I told you he was no gentleman.
-- End of report on BBC interview.
AND EXACTLY WHAT WOULD YOU BE DISCUSSING WITH MR. MILOSEVIC?
Though President Milosevic had requested the meeting with Chris Black
and
Andre Tremblay, they had to apply to the 'Tribunal', fill out forms, go
through an interview. A 'Tribunal' official asked Chris Black what he,
Tremblay and Milosevic might be planning to discuss. Black pointed out
that
such a question violates the lawyer-client relationship. The official
argued that since the President was defending himself, he did not need
to
see lawyers. Chris responded that regardless of how President Milosevic
is
dealing with the 'Tribunal,' he has the right to consult legal counsel
or
anyone else he wishes. Just because he has chosen not to register any
lawyers to represent him at the 'Tribunal,' because of his opinion of
that
body, does not mean he can't talk to attorneys.
ANDRE TREMBLAY
I spoke to Chris again this morning (Eastern U.S. time) and also for the
first time talked to the legal scholar, Andre Tremblay.
Tremblay is Professor of Law at University of Montreal. This month he
addressed the European Parliament, delivering a scathing critique of The
Hague 'Tribunal.' Like Black, Tremblay has been defending officials of
the
former Rwandan government, which has been jailed en masse by the Rwandan
'War Crimes Tribunal,' sister to the one holding Milosevic.
The current Rwandan government, which began as a military force trained
and
armed by the U.S., has no legal problems with the 'Tribunal.' Yet many
experts say its leaders and their U.S. sponsors bear overwhelming
responsibility for past and current violence in Rwanda. But that's a
whole
other nightmare... (3)
I asked Mr. Tremblay to describe his work and he said, "I defend poor
people, the ones who are abused, the oppressed." About the kidnapping
and
'trial' of Mr. Milosevic, he said:
"It is just the beginning. It's going to be a long fight. The President
is
in a very very good spirit and he is a man ready to fight. We do not
fear
and he does not fear at all - for we are telling the truth. "
Chris Black says other Serbian prisoners being held in the 'Tribunal'
"have
been electrified by Milosevic's resistance."
-- JI
***
Further Reading:
1) To see/hear Committee to Defend Milosevic lawyer Chris Black on CBC
TV,
go to http://cbc.ca/clips/ram-newsworld/kelley_black010704.ram
2) Regarding the demonization of Milosevic, please see "KLA Attacks
Everyone. Media Attacks...Miloshevich?" by Jared Israel at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/expan.htm
3) The Rwanda Tribunal is the subject of the article, 'One-Sided Justice
At
The Rwanda Tribunal' . That 'Tribunal' is also discussed in For Whom the
Bell Tolls by Jared Israel. The background of the situation in Rwanda is
discussed in the interview, 'A Murder in Congo' . The URLs for these
articles are
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/rwanda.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/tolls.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/congo.htm
4) One critical question of evidence is: What did Mr. Milosevic say? Did
he
exhort Serbs to commit hate crimes, as the Western media claim? Or did
he
preach ethnic cooperation and unity against NATO? You won't find out
from
the mass media, which manages to attack what he 'said' without quoting a
word. One of the most important texts is "Milosevich's 1989 Speech in
Kosovo" at http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/milosaid.html
---
Questa lista e' provvisoriamente curata da componenti della
ASSEMBLEA ANTIMPERIALISTA (ex Coord. Naz. "La Jugoslavia Vivra'"):
> http://www.tuttinlotta.org
I documenti distribuiti non rispecchiano necessariamente le
opinioni delle realta' che compongono questa struttura, ma
vengono fatti circolare per il loro contenuto informativo al
solo scopo di segnalazione e commento ("for fair use only").
Archivio:
> http://www.domeus.it/circles/jugoinfo oppure:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/crj-mailinglist/messages
Per iscriversi al bollettino: <jugoinfo-subscribe@...>
Per cancellarsi: <jugoinfo-unsubscribe@...>
Per inviare materiali e commenti: <jugocoord@...>
Sito WEB (non aggiornato):
> http://digilander.iol.it/lajugoslaviavivra
---- Spot ------------------------------------------------------------
Vuoi gestire da solo la pubblicita' della tua Newsletter?
Vuoi sapere quanti utenti hanno letto le tue News?
Vuoi pagare solo quello che consumi come traffico mail?
eC-Messenger e' il sistema white label ideato da Domeus
che ti permette di sfruttare al meglio le potenzialita' del
knowledge management e del CRM
http://www.domeus.it/ad2564560/interestmarketing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Per cancellarti da questo gruppo, invia un messaggio vuoto a: jugoinfo-unsubscribe@...
Send this article to a friend!
www.tenc.net
[Emperor's Clothes]
Invited Lawyers Await 'Permission' to See Milosevic
by Jared Israel [7 July 2001]
I caught up with the lawyers Chris Black and Andre Tremblay yesterday by
phone. President Slobodan Milosevic had requested to see them so they
flew
to the Netherlands on Thursday and are now waiting for officials at the
'War Crimes Tribunal' to approve their visit. They should have an answer
Monday at noon, Dutch time. (1)
The trip has received much coverage, some accurate, some not. Mr. Black
said the 'Toronto Star' had entirely misquoted him, misrepresenting the
reason for his trip to The Hague, making it sound as if he wanted to
pressure President Milosevic. Said ChrisBlack:
"The Committee to Defend Milosevic and its lawyers have nothing but
admiration for what Mr. Milsoevic did during his confrontation with the
Tribunal and we are going to the Hague to help him any way he sees fit."
The BBC (pleasant surprise!) got the story right:
"Two Canadian lawyers are travelling to the International War Crimes
Tribunal at The Hague at the request of the former Yugoslav President
Slobodan Milosevic.
"The lawyers are part of an international support committee that
considers
Mr Milosevic a political prisoner.
"Formed in Berlin in March, the International Committee to Defend
Slobodan
Milosevic is made up of 200 lawyers, writers and intellectuals.
"One of the lawyers, Christopher Black, said he was going there on
behalf
of the group to see the conditions of Mr Milosevic's detention and
discuss
any legal matters he wished to raise.
"At his first appearance at the tribunal earlier this week, the former
Yugoslav leader declined to ask for defence lawyers and refused to enter
a
plea on war crimes charges....
"Mr Black, accompanied by his colleague Andre Tremblay, refused to
speculate about whether they would eventually represent Mr Milosevic."
(BBC
News, July 6, 2001)
Things are not always handled so objectively. Here's a report I wrote
about
an interview the BBC had with Chris Black on July 3rd.
CHRIS BLACK, ABANDONED
It's a Free World unless you're too free with your opinions. Chris Black
reports on an interview with the BBC, 9AM Greenwich Mean Time.
Black: I had a discussion with the producer two hours before the
interview.
Everything seemed OK. When the program comes on, I don't recall the
gentleman's name, but he was taking a very strong pro-NATO view.
Israel: That's no gentleman.
Chris: It starts with a lead-in. There's some Serbian person they found
to
trash Milosevic and say he has to answer for his 'crimes'. The usual.
And
then the Serb says, "All Serbs are responsible because we voted for
him."
That seemed to me a very dangerous sentiment. First the assertion of
crimes. He offered nothing to back it up but people would think, "It's a
Serb saying this, so it must be true." And then his clincher: all Serbs
are
guilty. He says, "We shouldn't believe in collective responsibility."
But
then he says, "All Serbs are responsible."
So then they jump to me and the BBC guys says, "So Mr. Black do you
think
he's going to get a fair trial at the Tribunal?"
And I told him bluntly, "No," and explained why: "It's a NATO court, its
purpose is to justify NATO's flagrant aggression."
And then he cuts in and says, "Surely you would admit that there are
crimes
he has to answer for?"
The 'surely' is where you're expected to cave; the pressure is for you
to
say, "Well of course I'm not saying that!" But I said. "No. Nobody has
seen
any evidence."
And he said, "Oh come on now, there is massive evidence proving his
guilt.
It's all been proven in the media. We've had it on the BBC."
And I said, "That's fluff. There's nothing solid to back it up. If they
had
anything solid they would have produced it by now. It's all fabrications
that disappear when you examine them."
And he said, "How can you make such a sweeping statement like that?"
And I said, "Just as you made your sweeping statement, I have a right to
make my own sweeping statement. The purpose of this court is to justify
NATO's aggression against Yugoslavia to their own domestic populations.
To
justify that NATO had the right to bomb this poor country."
And he said, "But surely you would agree he can get a fair hearing!"
And I said, 'But surely I would not agree. He's been convicted in
advance."
And he said "How? How can you say that? These are only charges,
allegations. There's been no presumption of guilt. Who has convicted
him?"
And I said, "He has been convicted in the media."
He said: "How can you say that?"
I said: "You said it."
He said: "When?"
I said: "One minute ago. You asked me how I could deny he's guilty when
it's all been proven right in the media. Including the BBC. Your words."
That was when the phone went "Click" and there was 15 seconds of silence
and then a woman came on and said, "Well thank you, then. Good bye."
Jared: That's it? Not even flowers?
Chris: Nothing.
Jared: I told you he was no gentleman.
-- End of report on BBC interview.
AND EXACTLY WHAT WOULD YOU BE DISCUSSING WITH MR. MILOSEVIC?
Though President Milosevic had requested the meeting with Chris Black
and
Andre Tremblay, they had to apply to the 'Tribunal', fill out forms, go
through an interview. A 'Tribunal' official asked Chris Black what he,
Tremblay and Milosevic might be planning to discuss. Black pointed out
that
such a question violates the lawyer-client relationship. The official
argued that since the President was defending himself, he did not need
to
see lawyers. Chris responded that regardless of how President Milosevic
is
dealing with the 'Tribunal,' he has the right to consult legal counsel
or
anyone else he wishes. Just because he has chosen not to register any
lawyers to represent him at the 'Tribunal,' because of his opinion of
that
body, does not mean he can't talk to attorneys.
ANDRE TREMBLAY
I spoke to Chris again this morning (Eastern U.S. time) and also for the
first time talked to the legal scholar, Andre Tremblay.
Tremblay is Professor of Law at University of Montreal. This month he
addressed the European Parliament, delivering a scathing critique of The
Hague 'Tribunal.' Like Black, Tremblay has been defending officials of
the
former Rwandan government, which has been jailed en masse by the Rwandan
'War Crimes Tribunal,' sister to the one holding Milosevic.
The current Rwandan government, which began as a military force trained
and
armed by the U.S., has no legal problems with the 'Tribunal.' Yet many
experts say its leaders and their U.S. sponsors bear overwhelming
responsibility for past and current violence in Rwanda. But that's a
whole
other nightmare... (3)
I asked Mr. Tremblay to describe his work and he said, "I defend poor
people, the ones who are abused, the oppressed." About the kidnapping
and
'trial' of Mr. Milosevic, he said:
"It is just the beginning. It's going to be a long fight. The President
is
in a very very good spirit and he is a man ready to fight. We do not
fear
and he does not fear at all - for we are telling the truth. "
Chris Black says other Serbian prisoners being held in the 'Tribunal'
"have
been electrified by Milosevic's resistance."
-- JI
***
Further Reading:
1) To see/hear Committee to Defend Milosevic lawyer Chris Black on CBC
TV,
go to http://cbc.ca/clips/ram-newsworld/kelley_black010704.ram
2) Regarding the demonization of Milosevic, please see "KLA Attacks
Everyone. Media Attacks...Miloshevich?" by Jared Israel at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/expan.htm
3) The Rwanda Tribunal is the subject of the article, 'One-Sided Justice
At
The Rwanda Tribunal' . That 'Tribunal' is also discussed in For Whom the
Bell Tolls by Jared Israel. The background of the situation in Rwanda is
discussed in the interview, 'A Murder in Congo' . The URLs for these
articles are
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/rwanda.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/tolls.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/congo.htm
4) One critical question of evidence is: What did Mr. Milosevic say? Did
he
exhort Serbs to commit hate crimes, as the Western media claim? Or did
he
preach ethnic cooperation and unity against NATO? You won't find out
from
the mass media, which manages to attack what he 'said' without quoting a
word. One of the most important texts is "Milosevich's 1989 Speech in
Kosovo" at http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/milosaid.html
---
Questa lista e' provvisoriamente curata da componenti della
ASSEMBLEA ANTIMPERIALISTA (ex Coord. Naz. "La Jugoslavia Vivra'"):
> http://www.tuttinlotta.org
I documenti distribuiti non rispecchiano necessariamente le
opinioni delle realta' che compongono questa struttura, ma
vengono fatti circolare per il loro contenuto informativo al
solo scopo di segnalazione e commento ("for fair use only").
Archivio:
> http://www.domeus.it/circles/jugoinfo oppure:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/crj-mailinglist/messages
Per iscriversi al bollettino: <jugoinfo-subscribe@...>
Per cancellarsi: <jugoinfo-unsubscribe@...>
Per inviare materiali e commenti: <jugocoord@...>
Sito WEB (non aggiornato):
> http://digilander.iol.it/lajugoslaviavivra
---- Spot ------------------------------------------------------------
Vuoi gestire da solo la pubblicita' della tua Newsletter?
Vuoi sapere quanti utenti hanno letto le tue News?
Vuoi pagare solo quello che consumi come traffico mail?
eC-Messenger e' il sistema white label ideato da Domeus
che ti permette di sfruttare al meglio le potenzialita' del
knowledge management e del CRM
http://www.domeus.it/ad2564560/interestmarketing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Per cancellarti da questo gruppo, invia un messaggio vuoto a: jugoinfo-unsubscribe@...