"Processo" Milosevic / Milosevic "trial"
Di seguito, nel messaggio inviatoci dal Comitato Internazionale per la
difesa di Slobodan Milosevic, sono riportati alcuni significativi
recenti stralci dal "processo" dell'Aia. Si tratta dei passaggi in cui
il "magistrato" May e la "pubblica accusa" Nice si accordano per la
revisione della trascrizione del dibattimento, dunque per la sua
censura, allo scopo di impedire la divulgazione di quegli interventi
di Milosevic considerati "ad uso esterno" e dunque irrilevanti o
inopportuni per gli Atti del "processo".
Questo episodio si aggiunge a molti molti altri, dei quali rimane
testimonianza tra le ormai migliaia di pagine di verbali del
"processo" nonostante il silenziatore imposto a tutti i massmedia
internazionali; episodi che dimostrano l'abominio giuridico ed il
carattere paralegale del "Tribunale" dell'Aia. Come ulteriore esempio
di tale abominio, invitiamo a leggere ad esempio la pagina 11467 degli
Atti, relativa al 10 ottobre 2002, ormai leggendaria poiche' in essa
per la prima volta nella storia un "magistrato" (Richard May) dichiara
che la Corte accetta il "sentito dire" come prova.
Piu' sotto riportiamo un ulteriore testo, dell'inizio di marzo, che e'
tra le pochissime sintesi del dibattimento messe in circolazione via
internet negli ultimi mesi.
Chi avesse la possibilita' di seguire questo vero e proprio insulto
alla civilta' giuridica, giorno per giorno, e' invitato a collegarsi
ai siti che trasmettono le sedute pubbliche in formato Realplayer:
LIVE ENGLISH VIDEO FEED
http://www.domovina.net/Icty/eng/room1.ram
LIVE SERBIAN VIDEO FEED
http://www.domovina.net/Icty/bcs/room1.ram
ENGLISH VIDEO ARCHIVE
http://hague.bard.edu/video.html
SERBIAN VIDEO ARCHIVE
http://tribunal.freeserbia.com
Sintesi e notizie dal processo si possono anche trovare al sito
http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/
che e' ricco di documentazione altrimenti irreperibile.
===
Newsletter of the International Committee to
Defend Slobodan Milosevic (ICDSM)
Subscribe to our free newsletter at
http://emperor.vwh.net/MailList/icdsm.php
Receive articles from ICDSM Website
Please forward this text or send the link to a friend.
http://www.icdsm.org/more/redact.htm
========================================================
Hague Tribunal Alters Transcripts of the
Milosevic 'Trial'!
By Andy Wilcoxson
[Posted 26 April 2003]
========================================================
Look at the two passages below.
In Passage #1, Prosecutor Jeffrey Nice
suggests redacting (censoring) the
transcript if President Milosevic makes
remarks "for external consumption."
In Passage #2 Slobodan Milosevic is
cross-examining a witness and asks a
question that Nice and Judge Richard May
don't like. Nice asks May to redact the
question from the transcript. The question
gets redacted. Then May consoles the
witness, promising to protect him from
"harrying" questions and order Mr.
Milosevic to limit his cross-examination to
"what is relevant and proper."
(As some people may be unaware, The Hague
uses an adversarial system. This involves,
precisely, sharp and often lengthy
cross-examinations, with lines of
questioning intended to "harry" the witness,
with the goal of catching him in
contradictions and lies. By intervening to
prevent Milosevic from pursuing lines of
questioning unpleasant to the witness, Judge
May reveals the truth: that this is a show
trial. But it is an awkward show trial,
because the victim won't cooperate. Hence
Mr. Nice's worry that Milosevic is speaking
for "external consumption." We have a bit of
a contradiction here: it's a show trial but
they're afraid to have Mr. Milosevic's words
shown.)
If you go to the relevant part of the video
you won't have to be an expert to see that
the tape has been crudely doctored.
Video at:
http://hague.bard.edu/video/icty_env.20030401.ram
Go to the 1 hour, 4 minute and 20 second
mark of segment 2.
[Passage #1 begins here]
On March 31, 2003 (Page 18257 of the
transcript starting on line #7)
Mr. Nice: I remind the Court that I never
respond to the various allegations that are
made by the accused. I'm not going to change
the policy now. If at any time the Chamber
thinks that these allegations may be simply
for external consumption, it's always
possible to redact the transcript. I'm not
going to enter into any kind of a debate
with the accused over that sort of
allegation.
[Passage #1 ends here]
***
[Passage #2 begins here]
On April 1, 2003 (Page 18300 of the
transcript starting on line #6)
Slobodan Milosevic: I see. We'll come to
that later. Now, tell me, please, is it true
that you went to the Radojka Lakic
elementary school?
Witness Alija Gusalic: Yes.
Slobodan Milosevic: [redacted]
Mr. May: That is totally irrelevant. That's
a most improper question.
Slobodan Milosevic: [Interpretation] Mr. May
--
Mr. May: No, it is not a proper question,
and the witness will not have to answer it.
Now, kindly confine yourself to what is
relevant and proper.
Mr. Nice: May that passage be redacted from
the transcript.
Mr. May: Yes. Now, go on to something else.
Witness Alija Gusalic: [Interpretation] You,
Mr. --
Mr. May: Mr. Gusalic.
Witness Alija Gusalic: Shame on you, Mr.
Milosevic.
Mr. May: Mr. Gusalic, I can understand that
you'll be annoyed, but try not to be. You
will be protected from questions of that
sort. You're not here to harry the witnesses
or bully them, Mr. Milosevic. Now you'll
confine yourself to proper questions.
Slobodan Milosevic: Mr. May, I think that
this is proof that Mr. Nice is abusing this
witness. He is obtaining statements from him
which are not truthful.
Mr. May: You can ask the witness proper
questions. Now, get -- move on to that.
[Passage #2 ends here]
-- Andy Wilcoxson
===================================
Footnotes and Further Reading
===================================
[1] Using your computer, you may access the
trial proceedings in English or Serbian. You
may watch live or from archive. You will
need Realplayer. If you don't have it, go to
http://www.real.com/realone/dmm/video_trial/
Here are the hyperlinks and URLs to get you
to the videos.
LIVE ENGLISH VIDEO FEED
http://www.domovina.net/Icty/eng/room1.ram
LIVE SERBIAN VIDEO FEED
http://www.domovina.net/Icty/bcs/room1.ram
ENGLISH VIDEO ARCHIVE
http://hague.bard.edu/video.html
SERBIAN VIDEO ARCHIVE
http://tribunal.freeserbia.com
www.icdsm.org
===
http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/news/martinovic031103.htm
Report from UN Tribunal - Milosevic vs. 1st Bosnia Witness
Jurist (via S-M.org) ^ | March 11, 2003 | Vera Martinovic
Posted on 03/12/2003 8:41 AM PST by vooch
For the last two days the Prosecution was busy with 3
new witnesses and few technical/legal debates in open
court. This all was just quantity and their case further
caved in.
First, they invited our Government representative to
discuss documents needed for this 'trial'. I saw a piece of
this argument, read reports of it in our press and heard
bits on TV, and I also read a JCI article on that.
It is always far more significant what JCI omits to report
than what it actually reports. In her last piece, titled
'Trial Chamber Declines to Order Serbia-Montenegro to
Produce Documents', Judith Armatta writes just about
everything but the crucial thing: that May & friends
refused to order a free physical access to the State
archives by the Prosecution.
The request from Nice was that the Prosecution wants
to 'examine the archives and find' what they need.
The Yugoslav representative at the session, the Foreign
Minister's Adviser Djeric, argued this would be a
'document fishing' and 'frisking another country'.
The exact words by May were: 'The Trial Chamber is
not convinced that the Prosecution should be allowed
such physical access.'
This is a step even the ICTY is reluctant to take, so
Yugoslavia has been only ordered to answer to a
'priority list' of the requested specific documents by the
Prosecution within two months time. Therefore, it has
been ordered to produce documents, thus exactly the
opposite of what the title of the article claims. You will
not learn this by reading Ms Armatta's 'informative'
piece.
As regards 3 witnesses, it was significant that the first
witness for Bosnia & Herzegovina segment appeared,
then there was another General/'insider' and finally
another Dubrovnik witness started to testify today and
will finish tomorrow.
Do you know that at the end of today's session May
read out a list of some 20 more Dubrovnik witnesses
and asked the Prosecution with exasperation in his
voice: "Do you really need that amount of witnesses?!
We have already heard plenty of witnesses regarding
Dubrovnik. Think about that."
The first Bosnia-witness was one Mrs Malesevic, a
Chairperson of the Bosnia & Herzegovina Prison Camp
Inmates Association. She described in gruesome detail
(or else, confirmed the descriptions provided by Nice) all
63 ways and means of maltreatment and abuse against
the prisoners in 520 Serbian prison camps.
The problem was she had not a single evidence to
substantiate that vivid sadistic imaginativeness: no
names nor dates were given, the locations were
dubious (e.g. she had mentioned a prison camp in a
fortress in Bijeljina, whereas no such place exists
there), and she herself knows nothing about all those
places, because she was imprisoned in a Croatian camp
for nine months!
She claimed all has been documented by the 'statements
from witnesses' but was unable to produce a single one,
arguing 'all has been still under investigation' (after 12
years?!).
The most ridiculous moments with this confused
woman were when Milosevic, well-informed as usual,
had put to her that her claims of 2,500 Muslims being
in that Croatian camp Kresevo where she had been
kept were equal to the total number of Muslims in
that municipality and that her own earlier statement
in Sarajevo on 20 April 1994 was that there were only
500 civilians there.
"It will now turn out that I'm defending the Croats
here', joked Milosevic.
The poor woman was finally reduced to such mumbled
answers of 'I can not remember the details' (and she
'remembered' all the genital-cutting, excrement & body
parts-eating and other events to which she was never
present and to which she could not name a single
witness).
In re-direct, Nice made her 'promise' to 'subsequently'
find and submit 'documents'.
When will it be, I wonder? What were they doing for the
last 12 years? So, the first Bosnian 'witness' finished in
disgrace and stupidity.
The 'insider' General Milosav Djordjevic was completely
useless: a long-time pensioner, who had been in a top
position of the Serbian Defence Ministry for only 1 year,
could not provide a single piece of information, apart
from his own personal opinion that Serbian police was
better equipped than the JNA.
The old army man resented Milosevic for not helping
the JNA more (and he's been on trial for exactly the
opposite, mind you!).
Milosevic teased him mildly: "You claim that I took
more care about the Police than about the Army. Is it
any wonder that I took more care about what was my
job, instead of caring about what was not my job?"
And when Milosevic said: "You came here to testify
against me. Do you claim that I hated the Army?".
The old man explained meticulously: "I did not come
here to testify against you. The Federal Government
allowed me on 3 March to testify of what I know;
whether this would be against you or in favor of you, I
would not enter into that."
That was the end of it. Insiders' business is definitely a
wrong card for the Prosecution.
And yet another Dubrovnik witness?
This was a Director of the Institute for the Cultural
Monuments Protection in Dubrovnik, Mrs Baca. She
started with some maps of Dubrovnik, with 4-10 black
spots on them, representing buildings that had been hit.
Through her, the Prosecution introduced 4 more binders
of documents, proving that Dubrovnik actually is on the
UNESCO list of the world cultural heritage!
Here's something the Prosecution will be finally able to
prove. She is to continue tomorrow.
---
The above article is intellectual property of Vera Martinovic
Posted For Fair Use Only
Di seguito, nel messaggio inviatoci dal Comitato Internazionale per la
difesa di Slobodan Milosevic, sono riportati alcuni significativi
recenti stralci dal "processo" dell'Aia. Si tratta dei passaggi in cui
il "magistrato" May e la "pubblica accusa" Nice si accordano per la
revisione della trascrizione del dibattimento, dunque per la sua
censura, allo scopo di impedire la divulgazione di quegli interventi
di Milosevic considerati "ad uso esterno" e dunque irrilevanti o
inopportuni per gli Atti del "processo".
Questo episodio si aggiunge a molti molti altri, dei quali rimane
testimonianza tra le ormai migliaia di pagine di verbali del
"processo" nonostante il silenziatore imposto a tutti i massmedia
internazionali; episodi che dimostrano l'abominio giuridico ed il
carattere paralegale del "Tribunale" dell'Aia. Come ulteriore esempio
di tale abominio, invitiamo a leggere ad esempio la pagina 11467 degli
Atti, relativa al 10 ottobre 2002, ormai leggendaria poiche' in essa
per la prima volta nella storia un "magistrato" (Richard May) dichiara
che la Corte accetta il "sentito dire" come prova.
Piu' sotto riportiamo un ulteriore testo, dell'inizio di marzo, che e'
tra le pochissime sintesi del dibattimento messe in circolazione via
internet negli ultimi mesi.
Chi avesse la possibilita' di seguire questo vero e proprio insulto
alla civilta' giuridica, giorno per giorno, e' invitato a collegarsi
ai siti che trasmettono le sedute pubbliche in formato Realplayer:
LIVE ENGLISH VIDEO FEED
http://www.domovina.net/Icty/eng/room1.ram
LIVE SERBIAN VIDEO FEED
http://www.domovina.net/Icty/bcs/room1.ram
ENGLISH VIDEO ARCHIVE
http://hague.bard.edu/video.html
SERBIAN VIDEO ARCHIVE
http://tribunal.freeserbia.com
Sintesi e notizie dal processo si possono anche trovare al sito
http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/
che e' ricco di documentazione altrimenti irreperibile.
===
Newsletter of the International Committee to
Defend Slobodan Milosevic (ICDSM)
Subscribe to our free newsletter at
http://emperor.vwh.net/MailList/icdsm.php
Receive articles from ICDSM Website
Please forward this text or send the link to a friend.
http://www.icdsm.org/more/redact.htm
========================================================
Hague Tribunal Alters Transcripts of the
Milosevic 'Trial'!
By Andy Wilcoxson
[Posted 26 April 2003]
========================================================
Look at the two passages below.
In Passage #1, Prosecutor Jeffrey Nice
suggests redacting (censoring) the
transcript if President Milosevic makes
remarks "for external consumption."
In Passage #2 Slobodan Milosevic is
cross-examining a witness and asks a
question that Nice and Judge Richard May
don't like. Nice asks May to redact the
question from the transcript. The question
gets redacted. Then May consoles the
witness, promising to protect him from
"harrying" questions and order Mr.
Milosevic to limit his cross-examination to
"what is relevant and proper."
(As some people may be unaware, The Hague
uses an adversarial system. This involves,
precisely, sharp and often lengthy
cross-examinations, with lines of
questioning intended to "harry" the witness,
with the goal of catching him in
contradictions and lies. By intervening to
prevent Milosevic from pursuing lines of
questioning unpleasant to the witness, Judge
May reveals the truth: that this is a show
trial. But it is an awkward show trial,
because the victim won't cooperate. Hence
Mr. Nice's worry that Milosevic is speaking
for "external consumption." We have a bit of
a contradiction here: it's a show trial but
they're afraid to have Mr. Milosevic's words
shown.)
If you go to the relevant part of the video
you won't have to be an expert to see that
the tape has been crudely doctored.
Video at:
http://hague.bard.edu/video/icty_env.20030401.ram
Go to the 1 hour, 4 minute and 20 second
mark of segment 2.
[Passage #1 begins here]
On March 31, 2003 (Page 18257 of the
transcript starting on line #7)
Mr. Nice: I remind the Court that I never
respond to the various allegations that are
made by the accused. I'm not going to change
the policy now. If at any time the Chamber
thinks that these allegations may be simply
for external consumption, it's always
possible to redact the transcript. I'm not
going to enter into any kind of a debate
with the accused over that sort of
allegation.
[Passage #1 ends here]
***
[Passage #2 begins here]
On April 1, 2003 (Page 18300 of the
transcript starting on line #6)
Slobodan Milosevic: I see. We'll come to
that later. Now, tell me, please, is it true
that you went to the Radojka Lakic
elementary school?
Witness Alija Gusalic: Yes.
Slobodan Milosevic: [redacted]
Mr. May: That is totally irrelevant. That's
a most improper question.
Slobodan Milosevic: [Interpretation] Mr. May
--
Mr. May: No, it is not a proper question,
and the witness will not have to answer it.
Now, kindly confine yourself to what is
relevant and proper.
Mr. Nice: May that passage be redacted from
the transcript.
Mr. May: Yes. Now, go on to something else.
Witness Alija Gusalic: [Interpretation] You,
Mr. --
Mr. May: Mr. Gusalic.
Witness Alija Gusalic: Shame on you, Mr.
Milosevic.
Mr. May: Mr. Gusalic, I can understand that
you'll be annoyed, but try not to be. You
will be protected from questions of that
sort. You're not here to harry the witnesses
or bully them, Mr. Milosevic. Now you'll
confine yourself to proper questions.
Slobodan Milosevic: Mr. May, I think that
this is proof that Mr. Nice is abusing this
witness. He is obtaining statements from him
which are not truthful.
Mr. May: You can ask the witness proper
questions. Now, get -- move on to that.
[Passage #2 ends here]
-- Andy Wilcoxson
===================================
Footnotes and Further Reading
===================================
[1] Using your computer, you may access the
trial proceedings in English or Serbian. You
may watch live or from archive. You will
need Realplayer. If you don't have it, go to
http://www.real.com/realone/dmm/video_trial/
Here are the hyperlinks and URLs to get you
to the videos.
LIVE ENGLISH VIDEO FEED
http://www.domovina.net/Icty/eng/room1.ram
LIVE SERBIAN VIDEO FEED
http://www.domovina.net/Icty/bcs/room1.ram
ENGLISH VIDEO ARCHIVE
http://hague.bard.edu/video.html
SERBIAN VIDEO ARCHIVE
http://tribunal.freeserbia.com
www.icdsm.org
===
http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/news/martinovic031103.htm
Report from UN Tribunal - Milosevic vs. 1st Bosnia Witness
Jurist (via S-M.org) ^ | March 11, 2003 | Vera Martinovic
Posted on 03/12/2003 8:41 AM PST by vooch
For the last two days the Prosecution was busy with 3
new witnesses and few technical/legal debates in open
court. This all was just quantity and their case further
caved in.
First, they invited our Government representative to
discuss documents needed for this 'trial'. I saw a piece of
this argument, read reports of it in our press and heard
bits on TV, and I also read a JCI article on that.
It is always far more significant what JCI omits to report
than what it actually reports. In her last piece, titled
'Trial Chamber Declines to Order Serbia-Montenegro to
Produce Documents', Judith Armatta writes just about
everything but the crucial thing: that May & friends
refused to order a free physical access to the State
archives by the Prosecution.
The request from Nice was that the Prosecution wants
to 'examine the archives and find' what they need.
The Yugoslav representative at the session, the Foreign
Minister's Adviser Djeric, argued this would be a
'document fishing' and 'frisking another country'.
The exact words by May were: 'The Trial Chamber is
not convinced that the Prosecution should be allowed
such physical access.'
This is a step even the ICTY is reluctant to take, so
Yugoslavia has been only ordered to answer to a
'priority list' of the requested specific documents by the
Prosecution within two months time. Therefore, it has
been ordered to produce documents, thus exactly the
opposite of what the title of the article claims. You will
not learn this by reading Ms Armatta's 'informative'
piece.
As regards 3 witnesses, it was significant that the first
witness for Bosnia & Herzegovina segment appeared,
then there was another General/'insider' and finally
another Dubrovnik witness started to testify today and
will finish tomorrow.
Do you know that at the end of today's session May
read out a list of some 20 more Dubrovnik witnesses
and asked the Prosecution with exasperation in his
voice: "Do you really need that amount of witnesses?!
We have already heard plenty of witnesses regarding
Dubrovnik. Think about that."
The first Bosnia-witness was one Mrs Malesevic, a
Chairperson of the Bosnia & Herzegovina Prison Camp
Inmates Association. She described in gruesome detail
(or else, confirmed the descriptions provided by Nice) all
63 ways and means of maltreatment and abuse against
the prisoners in 520 Serbian prison camps.
The problem was she had not a single evidence to
substantiate that vivid sadistic imaginativeness: no
names nor dates were given, the locations were
dubious (e.g. she had mentioned a prison camp in a
fortress in Bijeljina, whereas no such place exists
there), and she herself knows nothing about all those
places, because she was imprisoned in a Croatian camp
for nine months!
She claimed all has been documented by the 'statements
from witnesses' but was unable to produce a single one,
arguing 'all has been still under investigation' (after 12
years?!).
The most ridiculous moments with this confused
woman were when Milosevic, well-informed as usual,
had put to her that her claims of 2,500 Muslims being
in that Croatian camp Kresevo where she had been
kept were equal to the total number of Muslims in
that municipality and that her own earlier statement
in Sarajevo on 20 April 1994 was that there were only
500 civilians there.
"It will now turn out that I'm defending the Croats
here', joked Milosevic.
The poor woman was finally reduced to such mumbled
answers of 'I can not remember the details' (and she
'remembered' all the genital-cutting, excrement & body
parts-eating and other events to which she was never
present and to which she could not name a single
witness).
In re-direct, Nice made her 'promise' to 'subsequently'
find and submit 'documents'.
When will it be, I wonder? What were they doing for the
last 12 years? So, the first Bosnian 'witness' finished in
disgrace and stupidity.
The 'insider' General Milosav Djordjevic was completely
useless: a long-time pensioner, who had been in a top
position of the Serbian Defence Ministry for only 1 year,
could not provide a single piece of information, apart
from his own personal opinion that Serbian police was
better equipped than the JNA.
The old army man resented Milosevic for not helping
the JNA more (and he's been on trial for exactly the
opposite, mind you!).
Milosevic teased him mildly: "You claim that I took
more care about the Police than about the Army. Is it
any wonder that I took more care about what was my
job, instead of caring about what was not my job?"
And when Milosevic said: "You came here to testify
against me. Do you claim that I hated the Army?".
The old man explained meticulously: "I did not come
here to testify against you. The Federal Government
allowed me on 3 March to testify of what I know;
whether this would be against you or in favor of you, I
would not enter into that."
That was the end of it. Insiders' business is definitely a
wrong card for the Prosecution.
And yet another Dubrovnik witness?
This was a Director of the Institute for the Cultural
Monuments Protection in Dubrovnik, Mrs Baca. She
started with some maps of Dubrovnik, with 4-10 black
spots on them, representing buildings that had been hit.
Through her, the Prosecution introduced 4 more binders
of documents, proving that Dubrovnik actually is on the
UNESCO list of the world cultural heritage!
Here's something the Prosecution will be finally able to
prove. She is to continue tomorrow.
---
The above article is intellectual property of Vera Martinovic
Posted For Fair Use Only