[ Una intervista al Segretario generale della NATO, Jaap de Hoop
Scheffer, in merito all'avvicendamento tra NATO ed Unione Europea in
Bosnia-Erzegovina: si tratta delle stesse identiche truppe, cambiera'
solamente la bandiera, e gli statunitensi non se ne andranno di certo -
visto che hanno requisito ed usano ormai in pianta stabile enormi basi
militari come quella di Tuzla. A volerla dire tutta: la NATO, dalla
Bosnia, non intende andarsene piu', e certo non prima di aver
"sfondato" ancora piu' ad est... La Jugoslavia l'hanno squartata
proprio allo scopo di impiantare le loro basi nei Balcani, figuriamoci
se vi rinunciano adesso. IS ]
Da: Rick Rozoff
Data: Gio 15 Lug 2004 17:59:51 Europe/Rome
Oggetto: NATO Is Not - Repeat, Not - Leaving The Balkans: General
Secretary
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/07/f263e6e2-5f59-4779-9684-
9cb158f39098.html
Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty
July 15, 2004
Interview: NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop
Scheffer Speaks With RFE/RL
NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer was
interviewed by Djeracina Tuhina of RFE/RL's South
Slavic and Albanian Languages Service on 14 July in
Brussels.
[Excerpts]
RFE/RL: Secretary-General, NATO has always promised
that it won't leave the missions in the Balkans until
all the problems are solved. The fact that Bosnia and
Herzegovina wasn't accepted in Partnership for Peace
[PfP] in Istanbul shows that there are still some
unsolved problems; yet again, you decided to leave.
How can you justify this transition from NATO to the
European Union forces?
De Hoop Scheffer: First of all, I do not think NATO
leaves. You are right, the EU is going to run an
operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina, but NATO will
stay; NATO will have a headquarters, NATO will have a
general, NATO will be involved in defense reform, NATO
will - together with the EU - hunt the persons
indicted for war crimes. You can't say NATO is going,
that NATO is leaving.
RFE/RL: But EU troops will be visible, not NATO
troops.
De Hoop Scheffer: Well, you must realize first of all
that if you look at SFOR, the present operation, 85
percent of the forces are European. So that will not
make such dramatic or tremendous difference. But, the
allied leaders in Istanbul have said that the time has
come for SFOR to end, and I am glad, we are glad that
the European Union is going to take over, because - as
you rightly say - not all the problems are over yet.
So I think it is also the wish of the authorities that
"a force" will stay in Bosnia and that will be a force
under the leadership of the European Union, which I
think is a good development and NATO is not going to
leave, let me stress that again.
RFE/RL: But how many numbers, how many NATO personnel
will be in Bosnia?
De Hoop Scheffer: I can't give you numbers on NATO
personnel, but I can tell you that the EU is taking
over responsibility for the mission, but that NATO
will go on having a number of responsibilities. I
mentioned [to] you the headquarters, the general,
advisers, advisers on defense reform.... So you cannot
say NATO is leaving Bosnia and Herzegovina, because
NATO isn't.
....
RFE/RL: Yet again, problems are there. The most
serious one is the question of the cooperation with
the Hague [war crimes] tribunal.
De Hoop Scheffer: I agree. And when the NATO
ambassadors under my chairmanship were in Sarajevo not
too long ago, we seriously discussed these problems
with the leadership and I think the leadership
realizes, as NATO does, that a lack of full
cooperation with the tribunal in The Hague is the
reason why Bosnia and Herzegovina did not get the
Partnership for Peace status in Istanbul. There are a
few people, perhaps more than a few, in the Republika
Srpska who don't understand that collaborating with
Mr. [Radovan] Karadzic and covering for him means that
Bosnia and Herzegovina is paying a high price for not,
I hope not yet, having Partnership for Peace, because
I am very much in favor [of] Bosnia and Herzegovina
getting Partnership for Peace, but everybody knows
that the full cooperation with the tribunal in The
Hague is an essential condition for that.
....
I think, and let me repeat this again, I think that
[Bosnia and Herzegovina] should qualify for
Partnership for Peace. The same, by the way, goes for
Serbia and Montenegro, where I will also go soon and
my story there will be the same - cooperate, show full
cooperation, do it, it can be done and do it.
RFE/RL: I guess you don't agree with some kind of
skeptics that say that [the] Istanbul decision not to
accept Bosnia and Herzegovina is a consequence of a
general mood in the alliance that [Bosnia and
Herzegovina] goes in a package with Serbia and
Montenegro in PfP.
De Hoop Scheffer: No, such [a] general mood I have not
found in the alliance over the past six months and I
am now secretary-general. Definitely not. The mood in
the alliance, I think, vis-a-vis [Bosnia and
Herzegovina] and Serbia and Montenegro is a positive
one. NATO, as I said before, is very much committed to
the Balkans. Let there be no misunderstanding, NATO
is, was, and stays committed to the Balkans. Also the
EU is going to take over the mission in Bosnia and
Herzegovina. So that commitment is there, that
commitment stays. I would like to see, I say that
again, rather today than tomorrow, that full
cooperation with the [International Criminal Tribunal
for former Yugoslavia] in The Hague is there and then
I will be the first to tell the NATO ambassadors and
the NATO nations the moment has come to seriously
address the question of PfP. Because I realize what a
deception it is and it has been that Istanbul did not
decide for PfP for [Bosnia and Herzegovina], but I say
again, everybody knows what conditions should be
fulfilled.
RFE/RL: Has Karadzic won the war against NATO? It has
been almost a decade of hide and seek.
De Hoop Scheffer: But you know in wars the last battle
is the most important one. And I say again, he can
hide but he will not be able to run forever. And SFOR,
as you know, has done everything in its power - let's
realize that the authorities are the first
responsible, I mean, not SFOR, the authorities are the
first responsible for getting Karadzic and others -
SFOR has done and is doing everything it can to assist
as much as it can, so will EUFOR, Operation Althea as
it is called, the goddess of healing [Note: In Greek
mythology Althea murdered her own son and was no
goddess, 'of healing' or otherwise- RR], which is nice
because there is still some healing necessary of
course in [Bosnia and Herzegovina] as you also said.
"So let's get them" is my parole, and is my mantra.
And SFOR will do everything it can to assist.
RFE/RL: Yes, but you decided to conclude the operation
before catching him.
De Hoop Scheffer: First of all, let me repeat, NATO is
not leaving, the EU is taking over the responsibility,
the force level will be as it is when SFOR is going to
end, so I can not see any strong argument, a
convincing argument that the fact that Karadzic is not
yet in The Hague would lead to a nondecision about
SFOR. The decision about SFOR has been made, NATO is
not going to leave [Bosnia and Herzegovina] as I said,
and Operation Althea - EUFOR - will as much as SFOR
has done support the authorities in getting Mr.
Karadzic. I can assure you that that will happen.
RFE/RL: Sooner rather than later?
De Hoop Scheffer: As far as I am concerned tomorrow
rather than the day after tomorrow; so sooner.
....
RFE/RL: I have to go back to the more or less
beginning. There is a lot of confusion among the
population on how will Bosnia look like after the EU
or Althea take over. Will it be the same soldiers,
almost the same uniforms, but different flag, or how
will it look like physically in Bosnia and
Herzegovina?
De Hoop Scheffer: Well, as you know, I will visit
Sarajevo with Javier Solana, the high representative
of the European Union. I think this visit shows, by
the way, how much the two organizations are committed
to [Bosnia and Herzegovina]. Two organizations -- the
EU and NATO. The soldiers, the men and the women, will
still wear uniforms, what patches they are going to
wear I do not know, I heard yesterday that the
operation is going to be called Operation Althea, we
labeled it EUFOR up to [a] day ago. So how the details
will exactly look like I do not know, but I can assure
you as secretary-general of NATO and I have a European
vocation as well, that the European Union is more than
able and competent to do this mission as good and as
well as SFOR has done it.
RFE/RL: But in any case do you have a "Plan B" for the
worse-case scenario, if EU mission fails in certain
elements? Does NATO has a "Plan B" to jump up in order
to help in certain situations?
De Hoop Scheffer: Yes, NATO has. May I refer to the
unfortunate incidents in Kosovo in mid-March, where we
saw a flare-up of ethnic hatred and ethnic violence,
as I say, NATO is not leaving, NATO is of course at
this very moment discussing with the EU exactly the
question you are asking me about the reserve forces.
We hope that they won't be necessary, but I take your
point, you can never entirely exclude it, but you can
rest assured that NATO will go on to play its role in
this respect.
Scheffer, in merito all'avvicendamento tra NATO ed Unione Europea in
Bosnia-Erzegovina: si tratta delle stesse identiche truppe, cambiera'
solamente la bandiera, e gli statunitensi non se ne andranno di certo -
visto che hanno requisito ed usano ormai in pianta stabile enormi basi
militari come quella di Tuzla. A volerla dire tutta: la NATO, dalla
Bosnia, non intende andarsene piu', e certo non prima di aver
"sfondato" ancora piu' ad est... La Jugoslavia l'hanno squartata
proprio allo scopo di impiantare le loro basi nei Balcani, figuriamoci
se vi rinunciano adesso. IS ]
Da: Rick Rozoff
Data: Gio 15 Lug 2004 17:59:51 Europe/Rome
Oggetto: NATO Is Not - Repeat, Not - Leaving The Balkans: General
Secretary
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/07/f263e6e2-5f59-4779-9684-
9cb158f39098.html
Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty
July 15, 2004
Interview: NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop
Scheffer Speaks With RFE/RL
NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer was
interviewed by Djeracina Tuhina of RFE/RL's South
Slavic and Albanian Languages Service on 14 July in
Brussels.
[Excerpts]
RFE/RL: Secretary-General, NATO has always promised
that it won't leave the missions in the Balkans until
all the problems are solved. The fact that Bosnia and
Herzegovina wasn't accepted in Partnership for Peace
[PfP] in Istanbul shows that there are still some
unsolved problems; yet again, you decided to leave.
How can you justify this transition from NATO to the
European Union forces?
De Hoop Scheffer: First of all, I do not think NATO
leaves. You are right, the EU is going to run an
operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina, but NATO will
stay; NATO will have a headquarters, NATO will have a
general, NATO will be involved in defense reform, NATO
will - together with the EU - hunt the persons
indicted for war crimes. You can't say NATO is going,
that NATO is leaving.
RFE/RL: But EU troops will be visible, not NATO
troops.
De Hoop Scheffer: Well, you must realize first of all
that if you look at SFOR, the present operation, 85
percent of the forces are European. So that will not
make such dramatic or tremendous difference. But, the
allied leaders in Istanbul have said that the time has
come for SFOR to end, and I am glad, we are glad that
the European Union is going to take over, because - as
you rightly say - not all the problems are over yet.
So I think it is also the wish of the authorities that
"a force" will stay in Bosnia and that will be a force
under the leadership of the European Union, which I
think is a good development and NATO is not going to
leave, let me stress that again.
RFE/RL: But how many numbers, how many NATO personnel
will be in Bosnia?
De Hoop Scheffer: I can't give you numbers on NATO
personnel, but I can tell you that the EU is taking
over responsibility for the mission, but that NATO
will go on having a number of responsibilities. I
mentioned [to] you the headquarters, the general,
advisers, advisers on defense reform.... So you cannot
say NATO is leaving Bosnia and Herzegovina, because
NATO isn't.
....
RFE/RL: Yet again, problems are there. The most
serious one is the question of the cooperation with
the Hague [war crimes] tribunal.
De Hoop Scheffer: I agree. And when the NATO
ambassadors under my chairmanship were in Sarajevo not
too long ago, we seriously discussed these problems
with the leadership and I think the leadership
realizes, as NATO does, that a lack of full
cooperation with the tribunal in The Hague is the
reason why Bosnia and Herzegovina did not get the
Partnership for Peace status in Istanbul. There are a
few people, perhaps more than a few, in the Republika
Srpska who don't understand that collaborating with
Mr. [Radovan] Karadzic and covering for him means that
Bosnia and Herzegovina is paying a high price for not,
I hope not yet, having Partnership for Peace, because
I am very much in favor [of] Bosnia and Herzegovina
getting Partnership for Peace, but everybody knows
that the full cooperation with the tribunal in The
Hague is an essential condition for that.
....
I think, and let me repeat this again, I think that
[Bosnia and Herzegovina] should qualify for
Partnership for Peace. The same, by the way, goes for
Serbia and Montenegro, where I will also go soon and
my story there will be the same - cooperate, show full
cooperation, do it, it can be done and do it.
RFE/RL: I guess you don't agree with some kind of
skeptics that say that [the] Istanbul decision not to
accept Bosnia and Herzegovina is a consequence of a
general mood in the alliance that [Bosnia and
Herzegovina] goes in a package with Serbia and
Montenegro in PfP.
De Hoop Scheffer: No, such [a] general mood I have not
found in the alliance over the past six months and I
am now secretary-general. Definitely not. The mood in
the alliance, I think, vis-a-vis [Bosnia and
Herzegovina] and Serbia and Montenegro is a positive
one. NATO, as I said before, is very much committed to
the Balkans. Let there be no misunderstanding, NATO
is, was, and stays committed to the Balkans. Also the
EU is going to take over the mission in Bosnia and
Herzegovina. So that commitment is there, that
commitment stays. I would like to see, I say that
again, rather today than tomorrow, that full
cooperation with the [International Criminal Tribunal
for former Yugoslavia] in The Hague is there and then
I will be the first to tell the NATO ambassadors and
the NATO nations the moment has come to seriously
address the question of PfP. Because I realize what a
deception it is and it has been that Istanbul did not
decide for PfP for [Bosnia and Herzegovina], but I say
again, everybody knows what conditions should be
fulfilled.
RFE/RL: Has Karadzic won the war against NATO? It has
been almost a decade of hide and seek.
De Hoop Scheffer: But you know in wars the last battle
is the most important one. And I say again, he can
hide but he will not be able to run forever. And SFOR,
as you know, has done everything in its power - let's
realize that the authorities are the first
responsible, I mean, not SFOR, the authorities are the
first responsible for getting Karadzic and others -
SFOR has done and is doing everything it can to assist
as much as it can, so will EUFOR, Operation Althea as
it is called, the goddess of healing [Note: In Greek
mythology Althea murdered her own son and was no
goddess, 'of healing' or otherwise- RR], which is nice
because there is still some healing necessary of
course in [Bosnia and Herzegovina] as you also said.
"So let's get them" is my parole, and is my mantra.
And SFOR will do everything it can to assist.
RFE/RL: Yes, but you decided to conclude the operation
before catching him.
De Hoop Scheffer: First of all, let me repeat, NATO is
not leaving, the EU is taking over the responsibility,
the force level will be as it is when SFOR is going to
end, so I can not see any strong argument, a
convincing argument that the fact that Karadzic is not
yet in The Hague would lead to a nondecision about
SFOR. The decision about SFOR has been made, NATO is
not going to leave [Bosnia and Herzegovina] as I said,
and Operation Althea - EUFOR - will as much as SFOR
has done support the authorities in getting Mr.
Karadzic. I can assure you that that will happen.
RFE/RL: Sooner rather than later?
De Hoop Scheffer: As far as I am concerned tomorrow
rather than the day after tomorrow; so sooner.
....
RFE/RL: I have to go back to the more or less
beginning. There is a lot of confusion among the
population on how will Bosnia look like after the EU
or Althea take over. Will it be the same soldiers,
almost the same uniforms, but different flag, or how
will it look like physically in Bosnia and
Herzegovina?
De Hoop Scheffer: Well, as you know, I will visit
Sarajevo with Javier Solana, the high representative
of the European Union. I think this visit shows, by
the way, how much the two organizations are committed
to [Bosnia and Herzegovina]. Two organizations -- the
EU and NATO. The soldiers, the men and the women, will
still wear uniforms, what patches they are going to
wear I do not know, I heard yesterday that the
operation is going to be called Operation Althea, we
labeled it EUFOR up to [a] day ago. So how the details
will exactly look like I do not know, but I can assure
you as secretary-general of NATO and I have a European
vocation as well, that the European Union is more than
able and competent to do this mission as good and as
well as SFOR has done it.
RFE/RL: But in any case do you have a "Plan B" for the
worse-case scenario, if EU mission fails in certain
elements? Does NATO has a "Plan B" to jump up in order
to help in certain situations?
De Hoop Scheffer: Yes, NATO has. May I refer to the
unfortunate incidents in Kosovo in mid-March, where we
saw a flare-up of ethnic hatred and ethnic violence,
as I say, NATO is not leaving, NATO is of course at
this very moment discussing with the EU exactly the
question you are asking me about the reserve forces.
We hope that they won't be necessary, but I take your
point, you can never entirely exclude it, but you can
rest assured that NATO will go on to play its role in
this respect.