ARTEL GEOPOLITIKA

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Datum:30. maj 2002.

Dr MILAN TEPAVAC: "Problem izbeglica u SR
Jugoslaviji i nestalih lica sa Kosova i Metohije"

Izlaganje na okruglom stolu Beogradskog foruma odr?anog
24.maja 2002. u Etnografskom muzeju u Beogradu.

Ja bih se u svojoj diskusiji ukratko osvrnuo na tva-tri
pitanja koja su ovde danas spomenuta, a koja bih ?eleo
elaborirati jer ih smatram jako va?nim.
Pitanje broja Srba u Hrvatskoj pocetkom 1991. godine, dakle
na pocetku njihovog stradanja, a zatim izgona.
Mislim da moramo biti sasvim precizni kada je o tome rec,
jer je rec o ciframa a ne o misljenju, stavovima. Sa pravom
brojkom se manipulise iz raznoraznih razloga, najcesce
prljavih politickih, ali i iz neznanja. Oni koji barataju s
tim ciframa cesto se ne potrude da pogledaju u zvanicne,
nicim osporene podatke. Zato smatram da kao apsolutno tacne
treba da uzmemo podatke iz popisa stanovnistva u SFRJ, i to
onog iz 1981. godine, dakle ne onog iz 1991. Tada, 1991,
takode je bio, kao sto znamo, popis, ali on je odr?an u vec
poremecenim odnosima i podaci se ni u kom slucaju ne mogu
uzeti za verodostojne. Ne zaboravime da su Srbi jos u
decembru prethodne godine, dakle 1990, izbaceni iz Ustava SR
Hrvatske kao narod i slicno. Bilo bi dakle naivno verovati
da su podaci tadasnjeg popisa pozdani. Dakle, prema popisu
stanovnistva u SFRJ 1981. broj Srba u Hrvatskoj je iznosio
531502. Kao "Jugosloveni" se izjasnilo 379.057 lica. Dobro
je poznato da su se kao "Jugosloveni" uglavnom izjasnjavali
Srbi. Necemo dakle pogresiti ako ove dve cifre jednostavno
zbrojimo. Dobije se broj 910.559. Kada postavimo pitanje
koliko je Srba bilo u Hrvatskoj pocetkom 1991. godine - kada
je pocela njihova tragedija - normalno je pretpostaviti da
je taj broj bio nesto veci od broja iz 1981. godine.
Dakle, dolazimo do brojke od oko jedan milion. Treba takode
podsetiti da se jedan znacajan broj Srba pri popisima
izjasnjavao kao "Ne izjasnjava se" (kao sto sam ja licno
cinio, smatrajuci da u jednoj visenacionalnoj zajednici ne
treba akcentirati nacionalnu pripadnopst). Dakle, ako se
hoce biti objektivan i posten pri svakom raspravljanju o
pitanju Srba u Hrvatskoj treba polaziti od tog broja i
navedenih okolnosti.
Jucerasnji zagrebacki "Jutarnji list" pise o popisu
stanovnistva u Hrvatskoj nedavno obavljenom, i navodi da je,
prema tom popisu, sada u Hrvatskoj oko 180.000, sto je, vele
ove novine, 4,05% stanovnistva Hrvatske. Danasnja beogradska
"Politika" pise da srpske organizacije u Hrvatskoj
kategoricno odbacuju ove navode JL, navodeci da je broj Srba
u Hrvatskoj veci. No, bez obzira na to da li je taj podatak
tacan ili ne, vise je nego jasno da je od 1991. do danas
doslo do izgona gotovo celokupnog srpskog stanovnista iz
Hrvatske, dakle do etnickog ciscenja jednog naroda bez
presedana u periodu od Drugog svetskog rata. I to upravo
naroda nad kojim su nacifasisti u toku Drugog svetskog rata
pocinili genocid u tzv. NDH po opsegu i monstruoznosti bez
presedana u istoriji.
Hrvati umanjuju i dalje ce umanjivati stvarni broj Srba iz
cisto politickih razloga. Prema postojecem zakonodavstvu u
toj novokomponovanoj dr?avi obim mnogih prava "nasionalnih
manjina" ovisi o njihovom broju. Otud ?elja za sto manjim
brojem, pored iracionalne mr?nje prema manjinama u
Hrvatskoj, posebno prema srpskoj. Ja ovom priliko ?elim da
budem kategorican u jednoj stvari: zameram svima onima koji
su olako presli preko izmena izvrsenih u Ustavu SR Hrvatske
u decembru 1990. godine kada je iz Ustava izbrisana odredba
o konstitutivnosti, ravnopravnosti srpskog naroda sa
hrvatskim narodom. To se odnosi i na prethodnu vlast u
Jugoslaviji i na sadasnju, i na svakoga onoga ko je
prihvatio taj antidemokratski i anticivilizacijski potez
tadasnjih hrvatskih vlastodr?aca. Svakome ko ?eli da zna
dobro je poznato da je konstitutivnost srpskog naroda u
Hrvatskoj i njegova ravnopravnost u istoriji stalno
potvrdivana jos od pre Marije Terezije, preko stavova
Hrvatskog sabora u 19. veku do odluka ZAVNOH-a i svih ustava
i Hrvatske i Jugoslavije od 1945. godine do tog kobnog dana
u decembru 1990. godine. To se nikada nije smelo prihvatiti
ni prakticno ni teoretski. Mi danas imamo situaciju da cak
okupatorska vlast u Bosni i Hercegovini - olicena u
gaulajteru Volfgangu Petricu - priznaje konstitutivnost
svatri narodsa u BiH. Pa kako se onda mo?e prihvatiti teza
da je konstitutivnost srpskog naroda u Hrvatskoj - bez
obzira na smanjenu brojnost - nestala voljom novoustaske
vlasti u Hrvatskoj i njihovih inostranih pokrovitelja? Ja
bih zato predlo?io i zamolio da ovo na odgovarajuci nacin
ude u zavrsni dokument, deklaraciju, ovoga skupa.
U naju?oj vezi sa prethodno recenim je naravno pitanje
povratka izbeglih Srba svojim kucama u Hrvatsku. Ja cu
spomenuti samo jedan aspekt ovog pitanja: pitanje vracanja
stanarskog prava izbeglim Srbima. - Kao sto je dobro
poznato, kada je krajem 1990. i pocetkom 1991. doslo do
povampirenja ustastva u Hrvatskoj, mnogu Srbi iz urbanih
sredina Hrvatske - pamteci i noseci u krvi ono sta se Srbima
dogodilo 1941- 45 godine u NDH - pobegli su iz svojih
stanova u Srbiju ili drugde. Racuna se da je takvih oko
50.000. Ako se uzme prosecnost porodica od samo tri clana -
radi se dakle o oko 150.000 lica, 150.000 tragedija, 150.000
beskucnika koji se, evo vec preko deset godina, zlopate, jer
jos uvek im ti njihovi stanovi nisu vraceni i time, naravno,
sprecen i njihov povratak sto je , ocigledno, i osnovni cilj
hrvatskih vlasti. Kao sto je poznato, u Bosni i Hercegovini
ovo je pitanje reseno. Hrvati ponesto obecavaju ali nista ne
cine u praksi. - Organizacija za evropsku bezbednost i
saradnju (OEBS), koja ima svoje diplomatske misije i u
Beogradu i u Zagrebu, zna da se u javnosti hvali da se ona,
bo?e moj, svojski anga?ovala da se ovo pitanje resi kao
osnovno pitanje ljudskih prava i kao civilizacijsko pitanje
Evrope koja pretenduje da bude nosilac najnaprednijih ideja
kako u oblasti ljudskih prava tako i buducnosti Evrope. Ona
do sada nije nista ucinila, sem obecanja da ce uciniti. A to
je itekako njena ne samo moralna nego i pravna i politicka
du?nost! Zasto to veli? Pa, evo zasto: ova nesretna
organizacija je najzaslu?nija sto su jugoslovenske
secesionisticke republike, pre svih upravo Hrvatska, postale
"nezavisne" dr?ave. Protivno svom osnovnom konstitutivnom i
programskom dokumentu, Finalnom aktu KEBS iz Helsinkija od
1. avgusta 1975. godine, ona je, umesto da pomogne da ne
dode do krvavog komadanja svog suosnivaca i svoje clanice
SFR Jugoslavije - sto je bila du?na po spomenuttom njenom
osnovnom dokumentu da ucini - ucinila sve da raskomada
Jugoslaviju i da sto pre prizna secesionisticke entitete za
dr?ave i da ih br?e-bolje ukljuci u svoje clanstvo!! Otuda,
eto, njena obaveza da bar nesto ljudski moralno ucini: da
prisili Hrvatsku da se bar malo ponasa u skladu sa osnovnim
aktima te po Jugoslaviju i po srpski narod kobne
organizacije. (Ne zaboravimo da je ona mogla, da je htela, -
a bila je i du?na da to ucini!! - da spreci agresiju NATO
pakta na Jugoslaviju i zato sto je na Kosmetu imala svoju
Verifikacionu komisiju. Pokazalo se, kasnije, da su clanovi
te komisije ustvari bili spijuni NATO koji su pripremili
teren za agresiju!!). Posto je Jugoslavija clan te i takve
organizacije, trebalo bi, bar, ciniti sve da ona prinudi
Hrvatsku na civilizacijsko ponasanje kao sto rekoh...Takode
molim da i ovo pitanje nade svoje mesto u deklaraciji sa
ovoga skupa.
Treca stvar na koju bih se osvrnuo bila bi istupanje naseg
prijatelja i patnika Sime Spasica koji je upravo govorio o
sudbini kidnapovanih Srba i drugih nealbanaca na Kosmetu. On
cesto nastupa javno, i uvek naravno emotivno govori, jer
nemoguce je o ovoj temi drukcije govoriti. On i njegovi
drugovi iz Udru?enja po pitanju kidnapovanih naprosto
sagorevaju i kopne na tom pitanju, a ne mogu nista da ucine.
Ja ?elim ovom prilikom da budem kategorican: to pitanje -
pitanje sudbine kidnapovanih preko 1300 - mora postati
pitanje broj jedan ove dr?ave, dr?ave Srbije i dr?ave
Jugoslavije! Ne Sime Spasica i njegovih drugova jer oni po
tom najtu?nijem i najsramnijem pitanju nase stvarnosti ne
mogu bez dr?ave nista da postignu. Ni od takozvane
medunarodne zajednice po ovom pitanju ne mo?emo mnogo
ocekivati. Danas, ovde, dosta smo toga culi kako se ona
odnosi prema srpskim izbeglicama i srpskom stradanju u
celini, ukljucujuci i one naj (ne)odgoivornije medu njima
kao sto su UNHCR, Sagato Ogata, Meri Robinson i slicni.

URL for this article:
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/borislav.htm

=======================================
A CONVERSATION WITH AMBASSADOR BORISLAV
MILOSEVIC, SLOBODAN'S BROTHER (Part 1)
[Posted 2 June 2002]
=======================================

Note from Jared Israel: On May 24th I
spoke via three way telephone with
BORISLAV MILOSEVIC, Yugoslav Ambassador to
Russia from 1998-2000 and before
that Ambassador to Algeria.

We discussed the significance of
widespread Russian support for Slobodan
Milosevic; the New World Empire's efforts
to destroy international judicial
standards and political discourse; and the
highly deceptive character of
Sept. 11 and the War on Terror.

Ambassador Milosevic mainly spoke
Serbo-Croatian, which was kindly translated
by Vladimir Krsljanin, International
Secretary of the Socialist Party of
Serbia. A few times Ambassador Milosevic
spoke English, as indicated in the text.

-- JARED ISRAEL

[To make following the conversation
easier, we have preceeded comments with
the name of the speaker.]

* JARED ISRAEL
Mr. Ambassador it's a great honor to speak
with you.
For our readers, let me say that your
brother, Slobodan Milosevic, has just
won the Sholokhov prize, named for Mikhail
Sholokhov, author of the great
Russian novel, 'And Quiet Flows the Don.'
Could you say a bit more about the prize?

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
Yes. It is perhaps the most distinguished
Russian award, given to artists and
political leaders of outstanding
achievement. Today at the award ceremony I
accepted the prize for Slobodan Milosevic
because, as the writer Yuri
Bondarev said in bestowing this honor,
Slobodan is being held in the dungeon
of The Hague.

* JARED ISRAEL
Dungeon is the word, isn't it? They don't
even let him meet with Chris Black,
the head of his lawyers' committee. And
his living conditions are outrageous
- terrible food, no exercise, no right to
see his own doctors - or any heart
specialist - even though his heart
condition is a matter of record. And
forced to be in court all day and to
cross-examine witnesses virtually every
day, week after week, which is unheard-of.

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
I think this award will further strengthen
the fighting spirit of Slobodan
Milosevic and his courage as well.

* JARED ISRAEL
Also it suggests that the Russians see
President Milosevic's resistance as
important to their own experience.

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
Yes. The greater part of Russian society
strongly supports Slobodan and
practically nobody approved his delivery
to The Hague, not even those
Rightist parties who were hostile to his
government. Both houses of the
Russian parliament voted overwhelmingly to
condemn his kidnapping. Even the
mainstream newspapers publish articles
critical of The Hague.
Russian people consider Slobodan Milosevic
a hero of resistance to
imperialist intervention, a patriot who
defends his country and his people.

* JARED ISRAEL
This support from Russia is very
encouraging to me.
I interviewed your brother on March 23rd
2001, just before he was arrested.
During that interview he said that one of
the things US and West European
leaders hated about Yugoslavia was the way
you handled the question of
national and religious group relations.
There had been so much conflict in
the past. Some groups had been organized
by the Nazis and earlier by the
Ottoman Empire to attack Serbs, and Roma
and Jews as well of course - and yet
in Yugoslavia, and this is still true in
Serbia, you had schools in 24
different languages and court proceeding
in nine languages. When I was in
Serbia this past year I saw that there is
still an attitude of mutual
appreciation among different groups.
It seems to me that the strategy of the
New World Empire that has attacked
you is to stir up hatred. They use the
guidelines laid down by the Nazis,
finding points of weakness in ethnic or
religious groups that will allow the
Empire's mass media and operatives to play
on cultural traits that if left
alone wouldn't necessarily be a problem.
They stir up hatred in one culture
against another in a hideous way,
especially appealing to groups that were
once in a dominant position, empowering
their worst elements. The Empire does
this more effectively than the Nazis
because they have much more
sophisticated mass media. Perhaps the
worst thing is that the mass media
romanticizes racist violence by calling it
revenge.
But, contrary to the media lies, (1) your
government never engaged in racism.
You always tried to promote fraternity.
This was clear in Slobodan
Milosevic's speech at Kosovo Field in 1989
(2) and before then too, despite
the extremely provocative situation.
Some people say Russia and Serbia are
linked, that Serbia is little Russia.
And so the fact that the Russian people,
after what they've been through, the
terrible trauma of the 1990s, the fact
that they can see as their beacon this
man who stands for social justice and
tolerance, this gives me hope. Because
there is another possible beacon - ethnic
hatred, anti-Semitism, which has
reared its head in Russia in the past, a
Black Hundreds solution.

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
You're completely right. There was no kind
of discrimination in Yugoslavia,
and while some former Yugoslav Republics
have become virtual mono-ethnic
states, Serbia hosts a million refugees of
all national and religious groups
and one third our population is not ethnic
Serbs. (3)
Serbia did not abolish the autonomy of
Kosovo in 1989 as some so-called
experts claim. Only certain extreme and
inappropriate elements of statehood
were removed from what was after all a
provincial government. This was done
to prevent the de facto creation of a
separate state in Kosovo.

* JARED ISRAEL
Which is precisely what NATO and the UN
are supporting now - a separate
Kosovo.

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
Yes.
Kosovo Albanians were not deprived of any
human or cultural rights in 1989.
The same was true of people in [the
Serbian province of] Vojvodina. In fact,
Kosovo Albanians continued to have
cultural rights unequalled in the rest of
Europe.
The accusations of loss of autonomy were
contrived. The secessionists
organized or forced ethnic Albanians to
boycott State institutions and set up
parallel institutions for purely political
reasons. (4)
Everyone knows that schools, universities,
the press, hospitals and TV were
maintained in Kosovo in the Albanian
language, even during this decade-long
boycott. The secessionists organized this
boycott to provide Western media
with provocative images and to create a
no-alternative situation for
Albanians. All political manipulation. (4a)
This is clear from the leaflet which
Slobodan Milosevic showed The Hague
'court' while he was cross-examining
[ethnic Albanian leader] Ibrahim Rugova.
The leaflet, which was signed by the KLA
and Rugova, ordered ethnic Albanians
to leave Kosovo during the bombing. Do you
see the game they played?
This demonstrates their dual purpose:
creating the false appearance that
Serbia was causing ethnic Albanians to
suffer, so that this could be
broadcast to the NATO countries, and
fostering a situation within Kosovo
where compromise was near impossible. This
was behind everything they did,
including the so-called Racak massacre and
the exodus of the ethnic Albanian
population during the NATO aggression.

[ Note: regarding the above, please see,
'The Racak Hoax' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/Johnstone/racakhoax.htm
And 'Why Albanians Fled During NATO
Bombing,' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/keys.htm ]

* JARED ISRAEL
And once they got the Albanians to leave,
they put them in refugee camps
under KLA control, with NATO's blessing.
Even the Western media had stories
reporting that these camps featured
non-stop hate-the-Serbs-and-'Gypsies'
indoctrination.

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
Yet during the three months in this Hague
'court', we have seen one after
another witness testify they never even
heard of the Kosovo Liberation Army.

* JARED ISRAEL
It would embarrass NATO. They claim they
are fighting terrorism, but these
people are all members - or leaders - of a
terrorist group.

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
Yes. It is a problem.
At the very beginning of the trial it
seemed as if Mr. May, whom they call
'judge,' was trying to create the
impression of impartiality. But now he
openly behaves as an extension of the
prosecutor. He prompts and assists
witnesses, allowing them every liberty
including making political speeches.
But he cuts off Slobodan Milosevic and
does not allow him to conduct
cross-examination fully or to express his
opinion.
This is very alarming. It creates a
precedent for violating accepted legal
principles including the impartiality of
courts, the very basis of law. It
requires the strongest international
protest.
This on top of the fact that Slobodan
Milosevic is a head of state,
overthrown by foreign money and then
kidnapped by foreign agents. Who is next?

* JARED ISRAEL
I think this so-called trial makes the
Reichstag Fire case look good. At
least Dimitrov was allowed to present his
case.

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
Yes, this Hague 'court' behaves like
someone's instrument. Since its
foundation it has been a tool of
aggression against Yugoslavia.
In some of my statements here in Russia I
often say that the Yugoslav crisis
was created in order to reorganize the
whole of international relations in
accordance with American interests and
expansionism and it was done in a very
conscious way.

* JARED ISRAEL
You know, also it was a step towards the
encirclement of Russia, wasn't it?
Because isn't it true that those who would
attack Russia need to consolidate
their hold in the Balkans first? And if
you look at what has happened, NATO
now surrounds Russia from Central Asia to
the Baltic. They have penetrated a
dozen countries. (5)

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
The aggression in Yugoslavia was an
attempt to impose new International rules
to justify NATO, a regional military
organization, usurping the sovereign
rights of countries outside its previously
claimed zone of responsibility. So
military and geopolitical expansion is
presented as humanitarian peace
making. Terrorist attacks are launched and
then intervention is threatened if
a country defends itself, and all this is
justified by a whole new
interpretation of international law so
that now even the United Nations is
employed to legitimize geopolitical expansion.
There were in the past many other examples
of violations of the UN charter:
Vietnam, Granada, and so on, and this
includes the sending of Russian troops
to Afghanistan. However, none of these
instances were sanctioned by the
Security Council.
In this sense, the Yugoslav case was
something new, an attempt to create an
international legal framework to justify
the destruction of a country by
terrorist forces. And what took place
after Sept. 11, that is NATO's
expansion into Central Asia, is a
continuation.
So, in the Yugoslavia crisis we saw this
new quality - aggression condoned by
international law and international legal
structures. And after September 11
we see this process moving into a new
stage. This makes it clear that both
the aggression against Yugoslavia and the
expansion of NATO from a West
European organization into Eastern Europe
- these were of more than regional
importance. (5)

* JARED ISRAEL
You know one of the interesting things
about September 11th is that here we
see an Empire which has organized most of
the terrorism in the world, mainly
starting with Afghanistan, but they claim
to be leading a crusade against terrorism.
The whole strategy of the US intervention
in Afghanistan, beginning in 1979,
was to promote terrorism. They and the
Saudis used the Wahhabi form of Islam,
pouring money into the madresses which
became schools training the terrorists
that subsequently plagued Chechnya,
Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Kashmir and I
think they are in the Middle East as well.
And this same terrorism which they have
created - and there is a lot of
indication that Mr. bin Laden is still
connected with the CIA (6) although
now that NATO is entrenched in Central
Asia they conveniently stopped talking
about him - this same terrorism which they
unleash in order to destabilize
areas is also used as an excuse to
intervene. So it is a tool of many
purposes. Very convenient and very
American, because it's very American to
have a tool that does two things at once.
A gadget. Terrorism is a political
gadget because on the one hand they can
use it to attack multiethnic society
as they did in Bosnia and then on the
other hand they can use it as the
excuse to invade, as they are now doing
with Central Asia.
But what shows their hypocrisy is - and
you may or may not know about this -
the United States is still shipping in
millions of militant Islamic
fundamentalist textbooks (6a) into
Afghanistan. Now why on earth would they
be doing this if they were sincerely
fighting against Islamic fundamentalism?
They just used this terrorist movement
which they themselves had created as
an excuse to move in.
Just one other point that occurred to me
when you were talking is that the
conduct and discourse of your government,
which was the last legitimate
government in Yugoslavia since what's
there now was created by the US,
Germany and Norway - the discourse of your
government respected political
ideas. (7)
This New World Empire attacks the very
possibility of political discourse by
shattering the link between words and what
they define - the Empire bombs
people and calls it humanitarian. They
manufacture events - we saw that with
Racak. And they simply rewrite history
(8), including manufacturing a
fictional version of your brother's famous
1989 speech. (1)
By doing these things they undermine the
possibility of rational discussion
because truth becomes whatever the
powers-that-be and their media portray as
true - it's a function of what's shown on
TV. And at the same time, they
reduce politics to threat and violence and
then they say, "Alas, that's
reality." But your brother takes ideas
seriously.
One of the organizations orchestrating the
*anti-human* actions at The Hague
is called, amazingly, Human Rights Watch.
I was present the first few days of
President Milosevic's 'trial' at The Hague
and I got to observe Richard
Dicker, a top HRW bureaucrat, in
operation. Not only was he virtually the
only person representing the 'Tribunal' to
the press - I mean, he was Carla
del Ponte's spokesman! - but both the
press and 'Tribunal' officials clearly
deferred to him, and he was often closeted
with the prosecutors. I saw this
with my own eyes. I commented to one of
the senior reporters, "It looks like
Dickers is running the show," and the
reporter laughed and said, "Dickers
*is* the show."
We have several articles in preparation
about HRW. Their board of directors
is a Who's Who of the Imperial
establishment, including Warren Zimmermann,
the U.S. Ambassador who helped destroy
Yugoslavia including by sponsoring
Alijah Izetbegovic, the fundamentalist who
devastated Bosnia (9) and George
Soros who boasts that he helped his father
run an extortion racket for the
Nazis in Hungary during World War Two,
visiting Jewish families targeted for
death camps and demanding all their money
in exchange for safe passage. And
now he runs a privatized adjunct to the
CIA. And this is *Human Rights* Watch.
HRW demonizes anybody who stands up to
Imperial-organized terror. When NATO
sent the KLA to attack Macedonia, Human
Rights Watch condemned Macedonian
security troops for resisting.
When I interviewed President Milosevic I
asked why your government accepted
defeat during the coup of 2000 instead of
going to war against your
opponents. He said something like, "We
wanted to avoid being sucked into a
civil war, which would allow NATO to
intervene on the grounds that Serbs are
'hopelessly violent.' Moreover, it is easy
to kill people but it isn't easy
to bring them back."
Despite everything that has been done to
you, you resisted descending into a
nightmare pit. You have upheld political
discourse against this Imperial onslaught.
I read a thing the other day by Noam
Chomsky, whom a lot of people put on a
pedestal. In it Chomsky makes the sweeping
generalization that
counter-terrorism "is terrorism carried
out by the state." But that's a very
simple minded approach. Because, contrary
to what Chomsky says happened in
Yugoslavia, when you fought the terrorists
in Kosovo - who were themselves
sponsored by NATO countries - when you
fought them, the Yugoslav Army took
causalities rather than endangering
civilians. (10)
Now one cannot say that *taking*
causalities rather than hurting civilian
is the same as *not* taking casualties and
hurting the civilians. So all
counter-terror is not terror. There are
choices in the unfortunate situation
of fighting terrorism as in everything.
And of course saying,
"counter-terrorism is state terror" has
the effect of obscuring these choices
and may end up justifying terrorism -
because after all the terrorists are by
definition no worse than the people
fighting them.

*** THIS DISCUSSION IS CONTINUED IN PART 2 ***


www.tenc.net * Emperor's Clothes

http://emperors-clothes.com/news/borislav.htm


PART 2 - CONVERSATION WITH AMBASSADOR
BORISLAV MILOSEVIC, SLOBODAN'S BROTHER


* JARED ISRAEL (CONTINUED)
And this current tendency to reduce human
existence to one equivalent evil,
where 'humanitarian' means 'bombing' and
resistance to terrorism is by
definition virtually the same as terror,
where it is considered natural for
ethnic groups to try to kill each other
and we are supposed to root for
whichever side the Imperial media has
portrayed as victims so that whatever
they do is justified as "revenge" against
whatever group has currently been
labeled "just like Hitler" - that, it
seems to me, is what your brother has
been fighting. That is why I'm supporting
him. Sorry for my long speech!

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC [In English]
Yes yes! No, no it's very good speech!

[In Serbo-Croatian] The whole concept
that your government is trying to
impose on the world is very similar to
what they preached when there was a
bipolar world, creating a positive force
and its opponent, a negative force,
which today is called international
terrorism; and in that struggle
everything is allowed. And nobody may be
neutral in that fight.
So in the conditions of world supremacy
of one power, the tendency for having
new armaments of mass destruction, new
lethal arms is increasing and it leads
to development and strengthening of
terrorism. International terrorism cannot
be suppressed by the use of force alone,
especially, as you correctly pointed
out, when the supreme power is itself
organizing terrorism in various ways in
Kosovo, in Afghanistan, in Chechnya. So
international security can be created
only on the basis of universality, and
not on the basis of isolation and
destruction of several countries that
allegedly represent some axis of evil.
And you have correctly pointed out that
many organizations defined as
terrorist for instance and especially in
the Middle East, were created and
are still controlled by the American
secret services.
And the American policy has created great
harm in other ways. There is the
destruction of the environment and the
economy in Yugoslavia because of the
attack. And there is the increasing
danger of both nuclear accident and
nuclear war.

* JARED ISRAEL
I think you made a very important point,
that the Empire wishes to create the
perception of a bipolar world, in which
they are one pole and the other is
terrorism.
This Empire's thinkers are aware that
every action has an equal and opposite
reaction. Because it's a law of politics,
isn't it? So opposition inevitably
develops. And because they are clever,
instead of only attacking the
opposition, the Empire tries to mold the
opposition. How can they lose if
they are fighting something they control?
Their own nightmare image, in effect.
By declaring this war on terrorism, they
are fighting forces which they
covertly control. Then they also defend
these terrorists, whom they actually
organized, by means of the 'human rights'
apparatus which they also control -
and this ends up luring some people into
sympathy and support for the
terrorists.
Such people may not be thinking clearly
or maybe they've just fallen into the
natural reaction that "the enemy of my
enemy is my friend" - it's a human
trait to think that way. So we see people
on what considers itself the Left
in the West making heroes out of the
Taliban and other terrorists. But these
terrorists are not fundamentally
opponents of this Empire. The Taliban,
for example, are victims of a guiding
principle of this Empire, which is, "We
have no friends, we only have future
victims." This Empire may attack those
whom it supported yesterday, as the need
arises. The Taliban were supported
by them (11) and then abruptly they
became a target because the US needed an
excuse, or more properly, the Empire
needed an excuse, because it is not the
same as the US, this Empire is above the
US government, the Empire needed an
excuse to move into Central Asia. This
was for geopolitical reasons. They
wanted to give Central Asian nations the
DOS (12) treatment, which is
penetration by Fifth Column
organizations, and we see this now going
on in Central Asia accompanied by military
penetration and the corruption of the
remnants of the Soviet officer corps
disguised as military aid and training.
The goal is to build a force in these
countries capable of striking Russia.
The Empire knows that Russia, in alliance
with China, is the primary real
threat to their control.
None of this is contradicted by Mr.
Putin's complete capitulation. As we saw
with Macedonia, capitulation does not
protect a country from attack by this
Empire. Indeed, the experience of the
Taliban shows that even being created
by this Empire won't help if they decide
to recycle you! (13)

So this move to complete the encirclement
of Russia is justified by the "war
against Terrorism." And so some people in
the peace movement, perhaps not
giving enough thought to what's going on,
but simply reacting to the
appearance, which is that the Empire is
attacking Islamic fundamentalist
terrorists - some people conclude that
the fundamentalists are an ally in
resisting NATO. Meanwhile, in fact, huge
numbers of Taliban are being
incorporated into the new Afghan army
(14) which is still a Fundamentalist
army, just more directly under Imperial
control and with an end to local
squabbling, or so they hope.
When Russia was the opposite pole, that
was a problem. Russia had positive
ideas and practices regarding social
equality. It was weak on democracy and
sometimes on international morality but
strong on social equality, and this
encouraged dangerous egalitarianism. But
with Islamic terrorists as the
opposite pole, when potential opponents
are drawn to the opposite pole, what
are they idolizing? The most backward and
fascistic forces - the very people
Saudi Arabia and US used to destroy the
secular state in Afghanistan.
So these jihad terrorists, the most
brutal killers, who condone violence
against women, whose definition of
democracy is enforcing the Quran, who
advocate religious war - these fanatics
become the heroes for kids who want
to change the world. What a nightmare.

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
It is a difficult situation.
Regarding this, let me say something
about the war on terror. We in
Yugoslavia consider September 11th a
tragic event.
Perhaps your readers are not aware of the
horrific destruction done to my
country [during the NATO attack on
Yugoslavia]. This was a war of terror. It
was launched to support terrorists in
Kosovo. And it was conducted by planes
dropping bombs, often encased in uranium,
from a great height, not by troops
on the ground. Terrible destruction,
massive killings, environmental
devastation. And all carried out from a
great height. Against a country which
hadn't invaded or threatened anyone. So
this too was terror. (15)
But we take no satisfaction regarding
Sept. 11. On the contrary, we
sympathize with those who have suffered
in the US.
It is understandable that people in your
country would have strong reactions
when those terrible events happened last
September. But now time has passed.
A more thoughtful approach may be taken.
A road of peace may be pursued. I
hope that people in your country will
think deeply about these questions. It
is very important to the world.

* JARED ISRAEL
Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC [In English]
OK, Israel. It was very very big pleasure
for me and I am very pleased to
contact to you like this and thank you
very much. Very big pleasure for me.

* JARED ISRAEL
Well, thank your mother and father for
having produced two men who have
contributed so much to the world.

* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC [Laughs. Says in
English]:
Don't overestimate things.

* JARED ISRAEL
But it's the truth. Where would we be
without Serbia? You resisted. What can
I say? The Serbs seem to do it every
time.

***

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Further Reading:

1) 'MEDIA MISREPRESENTATION OF
MILOSEVIC'S WORDS: A REVIEW OF THE
EVIDENCE,'
by Professor Francisco Gil-White can be
read at
http://emperors-clothes.com/milo/gw.htm

2) 'Milosevic Speech at Kosovo Field
(1989),' can be read at
http://emperors-clothes.com/milo/milosaid.html

3) 'BY ADDING THREE LIES, ONE DOES NOT
GET THE TRUTH - ONLY A BIGGER LIE,' is
a statement Slobodan Milosevic made
during a pre-'trial' hearing at The
Hague. It contradicts what one might
expect Milosevic to say, based on his
portrait as drawn in the Western media.
Can be read at
http://www.icdsm.org/milosevic/30jan.htm#1

4) In the classic text, 'Seeing
Yugoslavia Through a Dark Glass: Politics,
Media and the Ideology of Globalization,'
Diana Johnstone quotes a
semi-internal publication of the very
anti-Milosevic International Crisis
Group which states that Albanian
secessionists in fact boycotted
Albanian-language institutions in Serbia
(as opposed to having been deprived
of such cultural institutions by supposed
racists, as they and the Western
media claimed.) In other words, they and
the Western 'experts' lied. The
relevant quote is at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/Johnstone/1yugo.htm#kspring
Ms. Johnstone's article is generally
instructive in seeing through the dark
glass of misinformation about Yugoslavia.

4a) Speaking of 'provocative images,' in
'Art in the New World Order,'
written in spring of 2000, a news
photographer discusses the amazing fact
that from 1998 to 2000 virtually all the
top photojournalism awards were
given for pictures of crying Kosovo
Albanian women. What will future
generations make of this? Can be read
(and sample prize winning photos can be
seen) at
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/artinthe.htm

5) "Afghan Operation Leaves Russia
'Encircled' by US and NATO,"
by Sergey Ptichkin and Aleksey Chichkin
can be read at
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/encircle.htm

6) 'Gaping Holes in the 'CIA vs. bin
Laden Story,' by * JARED ISRAEL can be read at
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/probestop-i.htm

6a) 'Bush & the Media Cover up the Jihad
Schoolbook Scandal,' By * JARED ISRAEL at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/jihad.htm

7) 'Did any major power NOT fund the
Kostunica campaign?' can be read at
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/everybody's.htm

8) 'The Black Hole,' by Petar Makara
documents that 'Yugoslavia' was removed
from the Britanica when the existence of
said country became politically
incorrect. Can be read at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/multiple/blackhole.html

9) Alijah Izetbegovic was portrayed in
the Western media as a moderate in
favor of a multiethnic Bosnia. Nothing
could be further from the truth. For a
revealing quote from his book, "Islamic
Declaration," and a bit on his role
during World War II, see "JOE LIEBERMAN -
APOLOGIST FOR THE FASCIST KLA" at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/garris/duringthe.htm#1

10) 'The Other Side of the Story,' by
Dusan Vilic and Bosko Todorovic.
Written by two retired Yugoslav generals
with access to never-before released
army orders, this truly amazing book
documents the ways the Yugoslav Army
strove to fight NATO-backed terrorists in
a civilian-friendly way, thus
demonstrating that contrary to Chomsky,
counter-terrorism need not equal
terror. The issue of civilian relations
is discussed throughout including in
chapter seven which can be accessed at
http://emperors-clothes.com/book/book7.htm

The book can be accessed in full, or, for
quicker loading,
chapter-by-chapter, starting with chapter
one. For whole book go to
http://www.icdsm.org/more/book.htm
or for chapter one (with link to chapter
two, and so on) go to
http://emperors-clothes.com/book/book1.htm

11) 'Congressman: U.S. Set Up
Anti-Taliban to be Slaughtered,' includes
text of Congressional hearing and comments by
* JARED ISRAEL. Go to
http://emperors-clothes.com/misc/rohr.htm

12) DOS stands for Democratic Opposition
of Serbia, a charming use of
language, since these 'democrats'
overthrew the elected Yugoslav government
and burned the Parliament and these
'Serbs' were given what were in Serbian
terms astronomical amounts of money by
the US and other states in the new
Empire in exchange for 'their' nation.
For more information, see these two
texts, which also have useful references
found in 'sections marked Footnotes'
or 'Further Reading':

* a) "Kostunica Says Some Backers
'Unconsciously work for American Imperial
Goals...'" at
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/erlang.htm
[Includes the infamous remark that the US
shipped 'suitcases of cash' to DOS]

* b) 'US Arrogance and Yugoslav lections' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/engl.htm

13) On NATO's use of UN-paid terrorists
to attack Macedonia see: "SORRY,
VIRGINIA, BUT THEY ARE NATO TROOPS, NOT
'REBELS'" at
http://emperors-clothes.com/mac/times.htm
[Note - If you are not familiar with what
has been done to Macedonia, the
phrase "UN-paid terrorists" may sound
like the worst hyperbole. But read the
article and you will see that it is
understatement.]

14) For documentation of claim that much
of Taliban has been incorporated
into the new Afghan Army, go to
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/oil-1.htm#1

15) In 'Death on a Very Small Planet' we
have posted strikingly similar
pictures of the destruction caused by
September 11th and by NATO's bombing of
Yugoslavia. Can be viewed at
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/1/rem.htm

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