Informazione
1. Jared Israel Interrogates Hague "Tribunal" Prosecutor Blewitt
2. Attack on Life of President Milosevic (SLOBODA Association,
5/10/2002)
3. Return Milosevic! (SLOBODA Association, 13/10/2002)
4. Petition for Health and Life (25/10/2002)
MORE LINKS:
> http://emperors-clothes.com/petition/states.htm
Signers of "Free Milosevic!" Petition Speak Out
>http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=339343
> http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=11&ItemID=2419
NATO used the same old trick when it made Milosevic an offer he could
only refuse (by Robert Fisk)
> http://www.workers.org/ww/2002/intlcourt0919.php
Protecting mass murderers: Why Washington battles the International
Criminal Court (by John Catalinotto)
> http://www.workers.org/ww/2002/milosevic0926.php
Kosovo phase of Milosevic 'trial' ends (by John Catalinotto)
> http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/30/37444.html
The Hague's Nightmare: Milosevic Strikes Above the Belt (by Sergey
Yugov)
> http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/03/37672.html
Biljana Plavsic Turns Traitor; Milosevic Stands Up (by Sergey
Stefanov)
> http://emperors-clothes.com/news/milosevi2.html
Miloshevich's Speech to the Nation
Delivered Monday, October 2, 2000
=== 1 ===
> http://www.icdsm.org/more/blewitt.htm
Jared Israel Interrogates Hague "Tribunal" Prosecutor Blewitt
Jared Israel, Vice chairman of the ICDSM and editor of Emperor's
Clothes interrogated the Deputy Prosecutor of the so-called Hague
"Tribunal" regarding the testimony of the former security chief of
Serbia, Radomir Markovic.
Mr. Markovic had testified that he was pressured and tortured by
Serbian security officials who work with the "tribunal".
How did Mr. Blewitt respond to these charges? See for yourself.
With commentary by Andy Wilcoxson [27 September 2002]
Blewitt Interview (5.8 MB RealAudio File)
To just play the interview, go to
> http://emperor.vwh.net/Audio/blewitt.rm
To save the interview to your hard drive you must be reading this text
at the ICDSM website at
> http://www.icdsm.org/more/blewitt.htm
Once you are at http://www.icdsm.org/more/blewitt.htm you can
right-click on "Blewitt Interview" (above) and select "Save Target As"
RealPlayer is required to play this file. If you don't have RealPlayer
you can download it for free at
http://www.real.com
=== 2 ===
Subject: ATTACK ON LIFE OF PRESIDENT MILOSEVIC
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 23:02:08 +0200
From: "Vladimir Krsljanin"
SAVE HIS LIFE!
WHOLE-DAY-LONG 'COURT' PROCEEDINGS HAVE STARTED AGAIN!
IT IS AN INTENTIONAL ATTACK ON LIFE OF
PRESIDENT MILOSEVIC BY NATO TRIBUNAL!
RESPONSIBLE SHOULD BE PROSECUTED!
After more than three months the "trial" of
President Milosevic was going on only in
morning sessions, last Thursday the "trial
chamber" returned to earlier practice of
whole-day-long hearings. This was after the
same "trial chamber" weeks ago publicly
admitted existence of serious health and life
risks for President Milosevic and declared that
tempo of the "trial" will be slowed down and
President Milosevic will have more days for
rest.
President Milosevic, with malignant
hypertension and heart damages, still has no
specialists' medical care.
Death of six prisoners (all of them were Serbs)
was caused by the "tribunal" - in three cases
it was due to lack of medical assistance or due
to improper medical care.
We call all supporters of freedom and all
National Committees to mobilize medical doctors
and lawyers to react to this criminal practice
at The Hague.
UN is still giving auspices to the criminal
NATO martial court.
Address your government, which is UN member!
Address UN Security Council and Secretary
General!
They are being involved in a crime!
Save the life of President Milosevic!
Send copies of your letters of protest and
demands to protect humanity to the "tribunal"
as well. Here is their address:
ICTY
Churchillplein 1, 2517 JW The Hague
P.O. Box 13888 EW The Hague
The Netherlands
Fax No. +31 70 512 8637
People of Serbia and Yugoslavia require your
urgent reaction!
SLOBODA/FREEDOM Association
=== 3 ===
Subject: RETURN MILOSEVIC!
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:46:27 +0200
From: "Vladimir Krsljanin"
Belgrade, October 13, 2002
Mr. Claude JORDA, President
ICTY
The Hague
The Netherlands
Dear Mr. Jorda,
Please find here enclosed the statement of
Mr. Bogoljub Bjelica, the Chairman of the Freedom Association.
After our several letters to ICTY and many
appeals of organizations and individuals from Yugoslavia and other
countries, aiming to secure the proper life and health conditions for
President Slobodan Milosevic, we came to the conclusion that the
whole construction of the process against President Milosevic has as
one of its intentions to break the health and threaten the life of
President Milosevic. In spite of the oral promises of Mr. Richard May
and the Trial Chamber that recommendations of the ICTY appointed
physicians that President Milosevic should get a cardiologic
check-up, appropriate health monitoring and therapy, as well as that
intensity of the process should be slowed down, the only thing that
happened is that the Trial Chamber has returned the whole-day-long
proceedings.
That is why we demand release of President
Milosevic and his return to Yugoslavia for recovery and appropriate
specialists' medical treatment.
Yours sincerely,
Chairman of the Assembly
of the Freedom Association
Igor Raicevic
Belgrade, October 13, 2002
PRESIDENT MILOSEVIC SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY
RETURNED TO YUGOSLAVIA!
The Hague tribunal intentionally continues to threaten
the life of President Slobodan Milosevic.
Despite the numerous appeals and warnings from our
country and from abroad, this unacceptable criminal activity
continues. The whole-day-long proceedings at The Hague are back to
practice. In addition to the time spent in the court room, President
Milosevic is forced to spend more hours in the tribunal building
without food, rest and fresh air. The process is still indefinitely
prolonged with series of false witnesses, whose order has being
changed last minute, but who are followed by tens of thousand pages
of printed material.
With all the mentioned conditions, there is lack of not
only proper therapy, but even of any medical monitoring over the
health of President Milosevic. There was no cardiologic check-up, in
spite of the recommendation of the Dutch physicians appointed by the
tribunal, who made the one and only check-up of President Milosevic.
For that reason the total untruths in the statement of
the tribunal spokesman Jim Landale for the Yugoslav press (daily
"Nacional", October 11, 2002) - that President Milosevic has
permanent medical monitoring and proper therapy, cause our increased
worry.
Domestic and international public is aware that the
permanent over-human efforts and inhuman conditions President
Milosevic faces in the tribunal and in the prison, combined with
hearth damages and malignant hypertension, are the permanent threat
to his life.
The public is also aware that already several tribunal
prisoners lost their lives after the dramatic worsening of their
health in detention.
For all these reasons we demand that President Milosevic
should be immediately returned to Yugoslavia for recovery and
necessary medical treatment by an appropriate medical institution. It
is the only way to remove the threat to his life!
Bogoljub Bjelica,
Chairman of the Freedom Association -
Yugoslav Committee for the Defense of Slobodan Milosevic
=== 4 ===
Subject: PETITION FOR HEALTH AND LIFE
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:33:03 +0200
From: "Vladimir Krsljanin"
c o u r t e s y t r a n s l a t i o n
-TO THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS H.E. Kofi Annan
-TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL OF THE UNITED NATIONS
-TO THE "INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL TRIBUNAL FOR THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA"
Mr. Claude Jorda, president
Mr. Richard May, president of the Trial Chamber
D E M A N D
to protect rights for health and life of Slobodan Milosevic
We draw attention of all people of good will, and of our
colleagues - medical doctors in particular, the same way as to you -
high officials of the Organization of United Nations and of the
Tribunal at The Hague, that the different means of modern torture
have been applied against Mr. Slobodan Milosevic, since the first day
of his stay in the UN Detention Unit at The Hague. Mr. Milosevic
faces different kinds of physical and psychological exhaustion aimed
to worsen his already damaged health condition.
This torture started with strong light of the reflectors
switched on during 24 hours in his prison cell, it continued with
permanent video-camera monitoring of his prison cell, violating his
privacy and basic human integrity. It is allowed to the
representatives of the Prosecution to supply Mr. Milosevic with
hundreds of thousand pages of text and more than thousand video and
audio tapes, as well as to make last minute changes in the indefinite
order of witnesses, whom Mr. Milosevic has to cross examine, which all
requires from him enormous additional effort in the preparation for
the process. Above all that, instead of four hours as reasonable
length of daily proceedings, which would enable Mr. Milosevic with
some time for preparation, as well as with time for daily walk in
fresh air, regular meals and protection of general physical condition,
the unbearable practice of daily proceedings lasting from 9 a.m. until
4:30 p.m. has been imposed again. If one has in mind that Mr.
Milosevic is forced to be in the Tribunal building one hour before
until one hour after the proceedings, and that the proceedings take
place every working day, it becomes clear that he is deprived of all
conditions necessary for protection of normal health condition.
The Trial Chamber at The Hague has been acquainted in
detail with the health condition of Mr. Slobodan Milosevic, not only
on the basis of the submitted previous medical documentation, but as
well on the basis of findings of the medical check-up performed at
The Hague by three medical doctors appointed by the Tribunal.
Bearing in mind the provisions of the UN General
Assembly Resolution No. 3794 of December 18, 1982, which established
the duty of medical doctors and other medical personnel to provide
persons in prison or in detention "with therapy of the same quality
and in accordance with the same norms as for the persons who are not
in prison or in detention";
Recalling the Article 6 of the Codex of behavior of
persons responsible for application of the law, adopted by the UN
General Assembly on December 17, 1979, constituting the obligation of
all courts, from which the Hague Tribunal can not be excluded, to
take care about the complete protection of the health of persons
under its jurisdiction, in this case of Mr. Slobodan Milosevic, and
in particular to perform all necessary measures of medical care of
the same quality and based on the same standards as for the persons
who are not in detention or in prison;
Emphasizing the right for heath and right for life as
basic human rights;
Remaining faithful to the Hypocrates oath to which we all
as medicine doctors swore;
We demand:
1) To cease immediately the physical and intellectual
exhausting that seriously damages the health of Mr. Slobodan
Milosevic;
2) That Trial Chamber at The Hague determines such
schedule of the process that would enable Mr. Milosevic with at least
four days of recess after each two weeks of proceedings, as proposed
by our colleagues who made check-up of Mr. Milosevic at The Hague;
3) That daily proceedings before the Trial Chamber should
not be longer than four hours during a working day, so that besides
of preparation for the next day proceedings, Mr. Milosevic would have
time necessary for protection of his health condition (walk on fresh
air, regular meals, regular sleep, physical exercises etc.). We also
hereby require decrease of the amount of documentation supplied by
the Prosecution, especially since it is in large part irrelevant for
the role of Mr. Milosevic. The amount of documentation which has
currently been submitted, contributes to physical and intellectual
exhaustion of Mr. Milosevic, who is standing for his own case before
the Tribunal's Trial Chamber;
4) To secure all necessary medical protection for Mr.
Slobodan Milosevic, including regular check-ups by Yugoslav medical
doctors of his own choice.
We, the undersigned medical doctors, consider that
defense from freedom would be the most appropriate way to protect
health and life of Mr. Slobodan Milosevic. In that sense, our demands
1) - 4) constitute only a minimum of preconditions to avoid further
serious deterioration of his health and to avoid endangering of his
life.
Done in Belgrade, October 2002
S i g n e d b y:
1. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. SVETOLIK AVRAMOV, surgeon
2. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VUKASIN ANDRIC, otorinolaringologist
3. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VASO ANTUNOVIC, neuro-surgeon, Member of
the Scientific Society of Serbia
4. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. MOMCILO BABIC, specialist in social
medicine
5. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. JOVAN BUKELIC, neuro-psychiatrist,
Ordinary Member of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the Serbian
Physicians' Society
6. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. DRAGAN DELIC, infectologist
7. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VASILIJE DRECUN, internist-pulmologist
8. LJUBOMIR DURKOVIC, MD, primarius, specialist in social medicine
9. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. DRAGOLJUB DJOKIC, specialist in social
medicine
10. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. MIODRAG DJORDJEVIC, onco-epidemiologist
11. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VLADIMIR DJUKIC, surgeon
12. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. SLAVICA DJUKIC-DEJANOVIC,
neuro-psychiatrist
13. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. MILOS JANICIJEVIC, neuro-surgeon,
Ordinary Member of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the Serbian
Physicians' Society
14. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. RATKO KALJALOVIC, infectologist, Ordinary
Member of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the Serbian Physicians'
Society
15. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. MIROSLAV KOVACEVIC, neuro-psychiatrist
16. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. GORAN LUKIC, internist
17. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. CASLAV MILIC, internist
18. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. SRECKO NEDELJKOVIC,
internist-cardiologist, Ordinary Member of the Academy of Medical
Sciences of the Serbian Physicians' Society
19. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. LAZAR RANIN, microbiologist
20. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. ZARKO RANKOVIC, infectologist
21. PERISA SIMONOVIC, MD, neuro-psychiatrist
22. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VLADA SLAVKOVIC, internist
23. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. SVETOMIR STOZINIC,
internist-cardiologist, Ordinary Member of the Academy of Medical
Sciences of the Serbian Physicians' Society, Member of the National
Bulgarian Medical Academy, Member of the Russian Medical Academy
24. SLAVICA TASIC, MD, MS, specialist in general medicine
25. Dr. Sci. Med. DRAGAN CANOVIC, surgeon
26. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VOJISLAV SUVAKOVIC, infectologist,
Ordinary Member of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the Serbian
Physicians' Society
To join or help this struggle, visit:
http://www.sps.org.yu/ (official SPS website)
http://www.belgrade-forum.org/ (forum for the world of equals)
http://www.icdsm.org/ (the international committee to defend Slobodan
Milosevic)
2. Attack on Life of President Milosevic (SLOBODA Association,
5/10/2002)
3. Return Milosevic! (SLOBODA Association, 13/10/2002)
4. Petition for Health and Life (25/10/2002)
MORE LINKS:
> http://emperors-clothes.com/petition/states.htm
Signers of "Free Milosevic!" Petition Speak Out
>http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=339343
> http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=11&ItemID=2419
NATO used the same old trick when it made Milosevic an offer he could
only refuse (by Robert Fisk)
> http://www.workers.org/ww/2002/intlcourt0919.php
Protecting mass murderers: Why Washington battles the International
Criminal Court (by John Catalinotto)
> http://www.workers.org/ww/2002/milosevic0926.php
Kosovo phase of Milosevic 'trial' ends (by John Catalinotto)
> http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/30/37444.html
The Hague's Nightmare: Milosevic Strikes Above the Belt (by Sergey
Yugov)
> http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/03/37672.html
Biljana Plavsic Turns Traitor; Milosevic Stands Up (by Sergey
Stefanov)
> http://emperors-clothes.com/news/milosevi2.html
Miloshevich's Speech to the Nation
Delivered Monday, October 2, 2000
=== 1 ===
> http://www.icdsm.org/more/blewitt.htm
Jared Israel Interrogates Hague "Tribunal" Prosecutor Blewitt
Jared Israel, Vice chairman of the ICDSM and editor of Emperor's
Clothes interrogated the Deputy Prosecutor of the so-called Hague
"Tribunal" regarding the testimony of the former security chief of
Serbia, Radomir Markovic.
Mr. Markovic had testified that he was pressured and tortured by
Serbian security officials who work with the "tribunal".
How did Mr. Blewitt respond to these charges? See for yourself.
With commentary by Andy Wilcoxson [27 September 2002]
Blewitt Interview (5.8 MB RealAudio File)
To just play the interview, go to
> http://emperor.vwh.net/Audio/blewitt.rm
To save the interview to your hard drive you must be reading this text
at the ICDSM website at
> http://www.icdsm.org/more/blewitt.htm
Once you are at http://www.icdsm.org/more/blewitt.htm you can
right-click on "Blewitt Interview" (above) and select "Save Target As"
RealPlayer is required to play this file. If you don't have RealPlayer
you can download it for free at
http://www.real.com
=== 2 ===
Subject: ATTACK ON LIFE OF PRESIDENT MILOSEVIC
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 23:02:08 +0200
From: "Vladimir Krsljanin"
SAVE HIS LIFE!
WHOLE-DAY-LONG 'COURT' PROCEEDINGS HAVE STARTED AGAIN!
IT IS AN INTENTIONAL ATTACK ON LIFE OF
PRESIDENT MILOSEVIC BY NATO TRIBUNAL!
RESPONSIBLE SHOULD BE PROSECUTED!
After more than three months the "trial" of
President Milosevic was going on only in
morning sessions, last Thursday the "trial
chamber" returned to earlier practice of
whole-day-long hearings. This was after the
same "trial chamber" weeks ago publicly
admitted existence of serious health and life
risks for President Milosevic and declared that
tempo of the "trial" will be slowed down and
President Milosevic will have more days for
rest.
President Milosevic, with malignant
hypertension and heart damages, still has no
specialists' medical care.
Death of six prisoners (all of them were Serbs)
was caused by the "tribunal" - in three cases
it was due to lack of medical assistance or due
to improper medical care.
We call all supporters of freedom and all
National Committees to mobilize medical doctors
and lawyers to react to this criminal practice
at The Hague.
UN is still giving auspices to the criminal
NATO martial court.
Address your government, which is UN member!
Address UN Security Council and Secretary
General!
They are being involved in a crime!
Save the life of President Milosevic!
Send copies of your letters of protest and
demands to protect humanity to the "tribunal"
as well. Here is their address:
ICTY
Churchillplein 1, 2517 JW The Hague
P.O. Box 13888 EW The Hague
The Netherlands
Fax No. +31 70 512 8637
People of Serbia and Yugoslavia require your
urgent reaction!
SLOBODA/FREEDOM Association
=== 3 ===
Subject: RETURN MILOSEVIC!
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:46:27 +0200
From: "Vladimir Krsljanin"
Belgrade, October 13, 2002
Mr. Claude JORDA, President
ICTY
The Hague
The Netherlands
Dear Mr. Jorda,
Please find here enclosed the statement of
Mr. Bogoljub Bjelica, the Chairman of the Freedom Association.
After our several letters to ICTY and many
appeals of organizations and individuals from Yugoslavia and other
countries, aiming to secure the proper life and health conditions for
President Slobodan Milosevic, we came to the conclusion that the
whole construction of the process against President Milosevic has as
one of its intentions to break the health and threaten the life of
President Milosevic. In spite of the oral promises of Mr. Richard May
and the Trial Chamber that recommendations of the ICTY appointed
physicians that President Milosevic should get a cardiologic
check-up, appropriate health monitoring and therapy, as well as that
intensity of the process should be slowed down, the only thing that
happened is that the Trial Chamber has returned the whole-day-long
proceedings.
That is why we demand release of President
Milosevic and his return to Yugoslavia for recovery and appropriate
specialists' medical treatment.
Yours sincerely,
Chairman of the Assembly
of the Freedom Association
Igor Raicevic
Belgrade, October 13, 2002
PRESIDENT MILOSEVIC SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY
RETURNED TO YUGOSLAVIA!
The Hague tribunal intentionally continues to threaten
the life of President Slobodan Milosevic.
Despite the numerous appeals and warnings from our
country and from abroad, this unacceptable criminal activity
continues. The whole-day-long proceedings at The Hague are back to
practice. In addition to the time spent in the court room, President
Milosevic is forced to spend more hours in the tribunal building
without food, rest and fresh air. The process is still indefinitely
prolonged with series of false witnesses, whose order has being
changed last minute, but who are followed by tens of thousand pages
of printed material.
With all the mentioned conditions, there is lack of not
only proper therapy, but even of any medical monitoring over the
health of President Milosevic. There was no cardiologic check-up, in
spite of the recommendation of the Dutch physicians appointed by the
tribunal, who made the one and only check-up of President Milosevic.
For that reason the total untruths in the statement of
the tribunal spokesman Jim Landale for the Yugoslav press (daily
"Nacional", October 11, 2002) - that President Milosevic has
permanent medical monitoring and proper therapy, cause our increased
worry.
Domestic and international public is aware that the
permanent over-human efforts and inhuman conditions President
Milosevic faces in the tribunal and in the prison, combined with
hearth damages and malignant hypertension, are the permanent threat
to his life.
The public is also aware that already several tribunal
prisoners lost their lives after the dramatic worsening of their
health in detention.
For all these reasons we demand that President Milosevic
should be immediately returned to Yugoslavia for recovery and
necessary medical treatment by an appropriate medical institution. It
is the only way to remove the threat to his life!
Bogoljub Bjelica,
Chairman of the Freedom Association -
Yugoslav Committee for the Defense of Slobodan Milosevic
=== 4 ===
Subject: PETITION FOR HEALTH AND LIFE
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:33:03 +0200
From: "Vladimir Krsljanin"
c o u r t e s y t r a n s l a t i o n
-TO THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS H.E. Kofi Annan
-TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL OF THE UNITED NATIONS
-TO THE "INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL TRIBUNAL FOR THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA"
Mr. Claude Jorda, president
Mr. Richard May, president of the Trial Chamber
D E M A N D
to protect rights for health and life of Slobodan Milosevic
We draw attention of all people of good will, and of our
colleagues - medical doctors in particular, the same way as to you -
high officials of the Organization of United Nations and of the
Tribunal at The Hague, that the different means of modern torture
have been applied against Mr. Slobodan Milosevic, since the first day
of his stay in the UN Detention Unit at The Hague. Mr. Milosevic
faces different kinds of physical and psychological exhaustion aimed
to worsen his already damaged health condition.
This torture started with strong light of the reflectors
switched on during 24 hours in his prison cell, it continued with
permanent video-camera monitoring of his prison cell, violating his
privacy and basic human integrity. It is allowed to the
representatives of the Prosecution to supply Mr. Milosevic with
hundreds of thousand pages of text and more than thousand video and
audio tapes, as well as to make last minute changes in the indefinite
order of witnesses, whom Mr. Milosevic has to cross examine, which all
requires from him enormous additional effort in the preparation for
the process. Above all that, instead of four hours as reasonable
length of daily proceedings, which would enable Mr. Milosevic with
some time for preparation, as well as with time for daily walk in
fresh air, regular meals and protection of general physical condition,
the unbearable practice of daily proceedings lasting from 9 a.m. until
4:30 p.m. has been imposed again. If one has in mind that Mr.
Milosevic is forced to be in the Tribunal building one hour before
until one hour after the proceedings, and that the proceedings take
place every working day, it becomes clear that he is deprived of all
conditions necessary for protection of normal health condition.
The Trial Chamber at The Hague has been acquainted in
detail with the health condition of Mr. Slobodan Milosevic, not only
on the basis of the submitted previous medical documentation, but as
well on the basis of findings of the medical check-up performed at
The Hague by three medical doctors appointed by the Tribunal.
Bearing in mind the provisions of the UN General
Assembly Resolution No. 3794 of December 18, 1982, which established
the duty of medical doctors and other medical personnel to provide
persons in prison or in detention "with therapy of the same quality
and in accordance with the same norms as for the persons who are not
in prison or in detention";
Recalling the Article 6 of the Codex of behavior of
persons responsible for application of the law, adopted by the UN
General Assembly on December 17, 1979, constituting the obligation of
all courts, from which the Hague Tribunal can not be excluded, to
take care about the complete protection of the health of persons
under its jurisdiction, in this case of Mr. Slobodan Milosevic, and
in particular to perform all necessary measures of medical care of
the same quality and based on the same standards as for the persons
who are not in detention or in prison;
Emphasizing the right for heath and right for life as
basic human rights;
Remaining faithful to the Hypocrates oath to which we all
as medicine doctors swore;
We demand:
1) To cease immediately the physical and intellectual
exhausting that seriously damages the health of Mr. Slobodan
Milosevic;
2) That Trial Chamber at The Hague determines such
schedule of the process that would enable Mr. Milosevic with at least
four days of recess after each two weeks of proceedings, as proposed
by our colleagues who made check-up of Mr. Milosevic at The Hague;
3) That daily proceedings before the Trial Chamber should
not be longer than four hours during a working day, so that besides
of preparation for the next day proceedings, Mr. Milosevic would have
time necessary for protection of his health condition (walk on fresh
air, regular meals, regular sleep, physical exercises etc.). We also
hereby require decrease of the amount of documentation supplied by
the Prosecution, especially since it is in large part irrelevant for
the role of Mr. Milosevic. The amount of documentation which has
currently been submitted, contributes to physical and intellectual
exhaustion of Mr. Milosevic, who is standing for his own case before
the Tribunal's Trial Chamber;
4) To secure all necessary medical protection for Mr.
Slobodan Milosevic, including regular check-ups by Yugoslav medical
doctors of his own choice.
We, the undersigned medical doctors, consider that
defense from freedom would be the most appropriate way to protect
health and life of Mr. Slobodan Milosevic. In that sense, our demands
1) - 4) constitute only a minimum of preconditions to avoid further
serious deterioration of his health and to avoid endangering of his
life.
Done in Belgrade, October 2002
S i g n e d b y:
1. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. SVETOLIK AVRAMOV, surgeon
2. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VUKASIN ANDRIC, otorinolaringologist
3. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VASO ANTUNOVIC, neuro-surgeon, Member of
the Scientific Society of Serbia
4. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. MOMCILO BABIC, specialist in social
medicine
5. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. JOVAN BUKELIC, neuro-psychiatrist,
Ordinary Member of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the Serbian
Physicians' Society
6. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. DRAGAN DELIC, infectologist
7. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VASILIJE DRECUN, internist-pulmologist
8. LJUBOMIR DURKOVIC, MD, primarius, specialist in social medicine
9. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. DRAGOLJUB DJOKIC, specialist in social
medicine
10. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. MIODRAG DJORDJEVIC, onco-epidemiologist
11. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VLADIMIR DJUKIC, surgeon
12. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. SLAVICA DJUKIC-DEJANOVIC,
neuro-psychiatrist
13. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. MILOS JANICIJEVIC, neuro-surgeon,
Ordinary Member of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the Serbian
Physicians' Society
14. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. RATKO KALJALOVIC, infectologist, Ordinary
Member of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the Serbian Physicians'
Society
15. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. MIROSLAV KOVACEVIC, neuro-psychiatrist
16. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. GORAN LUKIC, internist
17. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. CASLAV MILIC, internist
18. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. SRECKO NEDELJKOVIC,
internist-cardiologist, Ordinary Member of the Academy of Medical
Sciences of the Serbian Physicians' Society
19. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. LAZAR RANIN, microbiologist
20. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. ZARKO RANKOVIC, infectologist
21. PERISA SIMONOVIC, MD, neuro-psychiatrist
22. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VLADA SLAVKOVIC, internist
23. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. SVETOMIR STOZINIC,
internist-cardiologist, Ordinary Member of the Academy of Medical
Sciences of the Serbian Physicians' Society, Member of the National
Bulgarian Medical Academy, Member of the Russian Medical Academy
24. SLAVICA TASIC, MD, MS, specialist in general medicine
25. Dr. Sci. Med. DRAGAN CANOVIC, surgeon
26. Professor Dr. Sci. Med. VOJISLAV SUVAKOVIC, infectologist,
Ordinary Member of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the Serbian
Physicians' Society
To join or help this struggle, visit:
http://www.sps.org.yu/ (official SPS website)
http://www.belgrade-forum.org/ (forum for the world of equals)
http://www.icdsm.org/ (the international committee to defend Slobodan
Milosevic)
International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic
www.icdsm.org
=================================
Slobodan Milosevic's Cross-Examination of
Croatian President Stjepan Mesic: PART IV
Because the transcript of the cross-examination
is 150 pages long we have broken it into 12
easy to read segments. If you wish to read the
whole thing at once go to:
http://www.icdsm.org/more/mesic.htm
=================================
Page 10647
1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. Was that when Ante Markovic established his own party?
3 A. On the 27th of July, 1990, the Serb assembly passed its so-called
4 decision on Serb autonomy in Croatia. On the 1st of July, 1990 in
Kosovo
5 by Knin, an official statement was made that the Serb Autonomous
Krajina
6 was established in Croatia, its president being Milan Babic. On the
17th
7 of August, the first roadblocks were on the road in Benkovac, Knin
and
8 Gradacac. On the 13th of September, there were meetings and rallies
of
9 persons in Dvor and in various other places. In towns and in
10 municipalities in Croatia where there is a predominantly Serb
population,
11 there were inscriptions saying: "This is Serbia." So it is persons
who
12 came from Serbia who manipulated the Serb masses in Serbia? Why?
Because
13 Milosevic needed to bring about an insurgency of the Serbs in
Croatia so
14 that he would light the initial fuse for setting Bosnia-Herzegovina
on
15 fire, because he needed Bosnia-Herzegovina. That's what the accused
16 actually did. That is why he should be held accountable. These
radical
17 statements, regrettably, are only in response to statements made by
the
18 accused.
19 Q. Mr. Mesic, do you see that you're not testifying about anything
20 here except your political and propaganda activities all this time?
21 Because you do not have a single fact here; you only have your own
22 positions and your attacks against Milosevic.
23 A. This is the trial of the accused Slobodan Milosevic. I have
24 sufficient facts in order to believe that he is guilty because he
planned
25 war, he carried out war, and he built into this plan a crime that
he
Page 10648
1 should be held accountable for.
2 Q. Very well.
3 JUDGE MAY: Let us get back to the subject-matter of the trial.
4 Yes. You are asking about the statements, Mr. Milosevic.
5 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
6 Q. I put a question. I said: These laws and the atmosphere in
7 parliament, the atmosphere in Croatia, the dismissals of thousands
of
8 persons from the administration, from the police, from the media,
even
9 from the health sector, is that the kind of atmosphere that caused
concern
10 among the Serbs, or was it, as Mr. Mesic just put it now, was it
Milosevic
11 who caused concern and who led to this insurgency? Were these facts
of
12 life the thing that caused concern among them or did Milosevic come
from
13 Serbia to make them start a rebellion, now that I've quoted all of
this?
14 A. It wasn't the accused Milosevic who came. His emissaries came,
15 and they were the ones who started the insurgency in Croatia.
16 JUDGE MAY: Can you deal with the allegations which are made,
17 that, first of all, there were the dismissals of thousands of
persons from
18 the administration and the police and the media and the health
sector?
19 Now, can you deal with that, Mr. Mesic? Were thousands dismissed?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I think that it is an exaggeration
21 to speak of thousands, but that there were dismissals is a fact.
There
22 were unnecessary dismissals. People also took those who dismissed
them to
23 court and won these cases. I think that these statements that are
radical
24 and inadmissible only work to Croatia's detriment, and I always
struggled
25 against that.
Page 10649
1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. All right. So the atmosphere and the statements -- I mean, you
3 say now that it is negative, but the atmosphere was there, wasn't
it? So
4 it's not Milosevic who caused an insurgency among the Serbs; it is
your
5 laws, your pressures, your behaviour, your attacks against people.
Is
6 that right or is that not right, Mr. Mesic?
7 A. I have to reply once again, and I've already said this.
8 Q. If you've already said it, please don't read out what you've
9 already read out, please.
10 A. Those who wanted to cut off parts of Croatia, parts of the
11 Republic of Croatia, those are the ones who are to be blamed for
the
12 radical statements that were made.
13 Q. Well, look, somebody wanted to cut off parts of your territory.
14 Susanne Woodward from the Brooking Institution, an institution of
high
15 renown throughout the world, she says:
16 "Smashed stores fronts, fire bombs thrown and harassed and
17 arrested potential Serb leaders. In many parts of Croatia Serbs
were
18 expelled from jobs because of their nationality."
19 JUDGE MAY: You can call her to give evidence if you want. Yes.
20 Was there an atmosphere, Mr. Mesic, to cause the Serbs to have
21 fear at this time or is that not so?
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It is an exaggeration to say that
23 there was an atmosphere of fear, but that there were improper and
24 inadmissible statements, that is a fact. Also there were dismissals
that
25 were wrong; however, people took those who dismissed them to court
and
Page 10650
1 they won those cases.
2 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. You mean those 100,000 Serbs who fled Croatia already in 1990,
4 they won these cases for their own jobs; is that what you're trying
to
5 say?
6 A. The accused is a lawyer, and he knows that only a person who is a
7 plaintiff can win a case.
8 Q. Well, we heard your own statements of a few minutes ago about
9 those murders, what kind of rule of law you had. We're going to hear
10 others later as well. I assume that you're not joking now when
you're
11 referring to --
12 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Milosevic, the time has come to move on from this
13 sort of argument, which doesn't assist the Court.
14 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
15 Q. Tell me, Mr. Mesic: Do you remember the statement made by the
16 famous artist Edo Murtic in Novi Liste [phoen], a daily from
Rijeka, made
17 in June 2000? I'm quoting him: "I remember how a few months prior
to the
18 elections in 1990" - he is referring to his conversation with
Tudjman -
19 "how he came to me quite delighted, believing that he would turn me
into
20 his Augustincic. He thought that we would now do what the Ustashas
and
21 Pavelic did not do in 1941. He said that he would send 250.000
Serbs
22 packing away and the remaining 250.000 would be killed." So these
are
23 your own newspapers. It's not a Belgrade newspaper. This is Edo
Murtic,
24 a famous artist, painter, a well-known intellectual. Do you
remember that
25 statement of his about this conversation before the elections in
1990?
Page 10651
1 And I quoted Susan Woodward a few minutes ago and she is referring
to the
2 atmosphere before 1990, before the elections.
3 JUDGE MAY: The witness can deal with the conversation by -- or
4 comments by the artist which has been referred to.
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The artist Edo Murtic is a friend of
6 mine, by the way, but I do admit that I haven't read that particular
7 statement of his.
8 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
9 Q. All right. Tell me, please: I'm just going to briefly quote the
10 newspaper Feral Tribune on the 21st of April, 2001, autumn 2001,
there was
11 a hunt against the Serbs in 1991. It says: "Mercep's killers were
12 killing Serbs en masse in Pogracka [phoen], Puljane [phoen], they
were
13 taking people out of their homes in Zagreb and they were trying
them but
14 firing bullets into their heads. Norac Oreskovic and others applied
15 similar methods when dealing with the innocent Serbs of Gospic.
16 Spectacular Crystal Nights were organised in Zadar during which
tens of
17 houses were destroyed whose inhabitants had the wrong chromosomes."
18 Is that correct, Mr. Mesic? Is that what the Croatian newspaper
19 Feral Tribune said or did this Croatian newspaper lie when they
said that?
20 A. There were crimes, and I always asked for them to be
investigated
21 and the perpetrators to be punished. Croatia did not have
sufficient rule
22 of law, and after all, that is how I won the election, because I
have been
23 calling for true rule of law in Croatia. Crimes were committed and
24 perpetrators should be brought to justice. But that is no reason
for
25 destroying Dubrovnik, for destroying Vukovar, for destroying
Croatian
Page 10652
1 cities. Criminals should be prosecuted, but towns should not be
2 destroyed.
3 Q. Correct. Perpetrators should be prosecuted, perpetrators should
4 be tried, but the only question is: Who criminals were. Who were the
5 criminals? That's the only question. And criminals should certainly
be
6 prosecuted and brought to justice, certainly.
7 So that is the whole point. That is the inversion that was made,
8 Mr. Mesic; isn't that right? You are testifying here that I was the
one
9 who broke up Yugoslavia and you were in favour of Yugoslavia and any
child
10 in Yugoslavia knows --
11 A. I think that we can reach agreement on one thing very quickly
12 here. I am not the person on trial here.
13 Q. Well, that's the point.
14 JUDGE MAY: We're going to adjourn now. It's time, Mr. Milosevic.
15 Half past. Twenty minutes.
16 --- Recess taken at 10.29 a.m.
17 --- On resuming at 10.54 a.m.
18 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Milosevic.
19 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
20 Q. I'm going to show you now that you weren't speaking the truth a
21 moment ago when we were discussing an issue and questions about the
people
22 who were fighting in Bosnia who were not volunteers. And when I
asked you
23 about your nephew, who was also in Bosnia, a Croatian soldier
there, and
24 he was not a volunteer. He was born in Slavonia so he was not from
Bosnia
25 either and had nothing to do with Bosnia, and you said that that
was not
Page 10653
1 true, not correct; isn't that so? Now take a look at your own
testimony
2 in a case - or rather, when you speak about this same subject, it is
page
3 7266 of the transcript - while you were testifying here in this same
4 building --
5 JUDGE MAY: This is, so we've got it, is this in -- not in
6 Dokmanovic?
7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, it isn't. It's in the other
8 case, the other trial, where Mr. Mesic was a protected witness. And
so I
9 wish to adhere to the rules, although the Slobodna Dalmacija paper
did
10 publicise this. I don't want to make explicit mention of it. And
11 Mr. Mesic, as we can see, is a witness, has been a witness in many
cases,
12 a witness for the Prosecution, which also demonstrates this
inversion.
13 JUDGE MAY: No. That's just --
14 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] That I was talking about. All
15 right. But this is what it says here. May I read it out?
16 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
17 Q. And I'm reading out your own transcript, not mine, when you're
18 talking about whether they were in Bosnia-Herzegovina. He says the
19 following: "Whether there were any, I cannot tell [In English] I
was not
20 an inspector, nor was it up to me to establish it. But my nephew
Vlatko
21 Mesic, who was a Croat soldier, he was in Bosnia. He came back from
there
22 and he was not a volunteer in Bosnia. He was born in Slavonia. He
has
23 nothing in common with Bosnia, but he was there."
24 Therefore, you told an untruth a moment ago. You even said that
25 your nephews were too young, whereas here in this transcript from
your
Page 10654
Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the
French and English transcripts.
Page 10655
1 testimony which was given under oath, you are saying something quite
2 different, in fact. Is that right, Mr. Mesic, or is it not?
3 A. My two nephews live in France, and two of them live in Belgrade.
4 And during the war, they were minors. It is a relation of mine, a
distant
5 cousin. The interpretation of that was probably erroneous. Who said
6 that -- who told me he was in Bosnia. That is what he told me and
that is
7 what I said.
8 Q. Very well.
9 MR. NICE: Your Honour, can I -- I didn't want to interrupt that
10 last exchange, given that it had started, but any further reference
to
11 protected testimony should itself be given in private session.
12 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Very well.
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't see why this should be given
14 in private session, Mr. May, when I am making no mention here of --
15 JUDGE MAY: It doesn't matter.
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] -- what it refers to, actually.
17 JUDGE MAY: Those are the Rules. Any reference to private-session
18 matters should be in private session. Yes, let's go on.
19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't see that I have infringed
20 upon your procedure in any way by having brought that up.
21 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. When you were asked by a representative of the accused, did you
as
23 a speaker take any steps for this matter to be investigated?
Because of
24 course [In English] It is the assembly's responsibility regarding
the use
25 of the army outside its border. Did you form a commission? Did you
put
Page 10656
1 this issue on agenda --
2 JUDGE MAY: We'll go into private session.
3 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Don't, please. I don't want to
4 waste time. I won't carry on with that.
5 JUDGE MAY: Very well.
6 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
7 Q. So when weren't you speaking the truth, Mr. Mesic: Now or then,
8 when you made that statement which was under oath again?
9 JUDGE MAY: He's given his explanation. If there's anything you
10 want to add, Mr. Mesic, you can.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The direct question was whether my
12 nephew was there, and I said no. A relative, a relation of mine,
was,
13 which means that individuals were there who were not born in
Bosnia. But
14 apart from that one individual that I did know, I wasn't able to
ascertain
15 who was there.
16 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
17 Q. Now, whether you say nephew or relative or distant cousin or
18 whatever I read out here, that's what it said, so there can be no
dilemmas
19 there or confusion. Let's move on.
20 Is it true that in your presence Tudjman said that at the end of
21 the war there would be 5 per cent of Serbs in Croatia, by the end
of the
22 war?
23 A. Yes, that is what he said. He said that was his assumption.
24 Q. Is it also true that he said that Tudjman thought that the 1938
25 solution for Croatia was the best one when it was the banovina of
Croatia?
Page 10657
1 A. No. It was Tudjman's position that as Vojvodina had been attached
2 to Serbia, and it was never under Serbia, even during World War II,
3 Vojvodina was under the main staff and headquarters of Croatia
because
4 Serbia did not have one. And he therefore considered that Avnoj, the
5 anti-fascist World War II council had made a mistake when to
6 Bosnia-Herzegovina as a historical Croatian province had not been
7 envisioned as autonomous province within Croatia. So that position
was
8 one that he always stood by, and he considered that
Bosnia-Herzegovina had
9 to be a whole, a whole entity, and that it must be within the
frameworks
10 of Croatia. But Avnoj, the anti-fascist council, did not take that
into
11 account. However, in the electoral campaign, he stated the facts
and said
12 that Croatia represented an oblong role with one section cut off.
But in
13 that way, he did not move any proceedings to put that right and to
ask for
14 alien territory to be attached to Croatia. After he returned from
15 Karadjordjevo, he said that Croatia was to receive the banovina
borders
16 plus Cazin and Bihac, Kladusa, and he said, as Milosevic had told
him, he
17 said: "Listen, Franjo." That's what he said. You take Cazin,
Kladusa and
18 Bihac. I don't need that. That is what we refer to as Turkish
Croatia.
19 That's what he told us. Now, whether that was what actually took
place,
20 the accused knows that better himself.
21 Q. Well, of course there was no discussion about carving up Bosnia.
22 We have already had that discussion here. But your explanations are
23 becoming relevant for you. So to recap: You weren't telling the
truth
24 with respect to the presence in Bosnia, and later on I am going to
call
25 evidence --
* Continued at: http://www.icdsm.org/more/mesic-5.htm
***** Urgent Message from Sloboda (Freedom) Association and the
International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic!
The Freedom Association in Belgrade and the ICDSM, based outside
Yugoslavia, are the two organizations formed at the request of
Slobodan
Milosevic to aid in his defense.
Up until now our main work has been threefold. We have publicized the
truth about The Hague's phony trial. We have organized research to
help President Milosevic expose NATO's lies. And we have initiated
legal action in the Dutch and European Courts.
Now our job has increased. The defense phase of the "trial" starts in
May 2003. No longer will Mr. Milosevic be limited to cross-examining
Hague witnesses. The prosecution will be forced further onto the
defensive as victims of NATO's aggression and experts from Yugoslavia
and
the NATO countries tell what really happened and expose media lies.
Moreover, Mr. Milosevic will call leaders, from East and West, some
friendly and some hostile to the truth.
The controlled mass media will undoubtedly try to suppress this
testimony as they have tried to suppress Mr. Milosevic's
cross-examinations. Nevertheless this phase of the "trial" will be the
biggest international forum ever to expose NATO's use of racism,
violence and lies to attack Yugoslavia.
We urgently need the help of all people who care about what is
happening in The Hague. Right now, Nico Steijnen , the Dutch lawyer in
the
ICDSM, is waging legal battles in the Dutch courts and before the
European Court, about which more news soon. These efforts urgently
require financial support. We now maintain a small staff of Yugoslav
lawyers in Holland, assisting and advising Mr. Milosevic full-time. We
need to expand our Dutch facilities, perhaps bringing in a
non-Yugoslav attorney full-time. Definitely we must guarantee that we
have an
office and office manager available at all times, to compile and
process evidence and for meetings with witnesses and lawyers and as a
base
for organizing press conferences.
All this costs money. And for this, we rely on those who want Mr.
Milosevic to have the best possible support for attacking NATO's lies.
************
Here's how you can help...
************
* You may contribute by credit card. By the end of September we will
have an ICDSM secure server so you can contribute directly on the
Internet.
For now, you can contribute by credit card in two ways: *
You can Contribute by Credit Card over the Telephone by calling:
ICDSM office, USA: 1 617 916-1705
SLOBODA (Freedom) Association office, Belgrade: 381 63 279 819
You can Contribute using PayPal at:
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PayPal accepts VISA and MasterCard
You can Contribute by mail to:
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- OR -
You can Contribute by wire transfer to Sloboda Association
Intermediary:
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Swift Code: UBSWCHZH
Account with:
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Thank you!
http://www.icdsm.org
www.icdsm.org
=================================
Slobodan Milosevic's Cross-Examination of
Croatian President Stjepan Mesic: PART IV
Because the transcript of the cross-examination
is 150 pages long we have broken it into 12
easy to read segments. If you wish to read the
whole thing at once go to:
http://www.icdsm.org/more/mesic.htm
=================================
Page 10647
1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. Was that when Ante Markovic established his own party?
3 A. On the 27th of July, 1990, the Serb assembly passed its so-called
4 decision on Serb autonomy in Croatia. On the 1st of July, 1990 in
Kosovo
5 by Knin, an official statement was made that the Serb Autonomous
Krajina
6 was established in Croatia, its president being Milan Babic. On the
17th
7 of August, the first roadblocks were on the road in Benkovac, Knin
and
8 Gradacac. On the 13th of September, there were meetings and rallies
of
9 persons in Dvor and in various other places. In towns and in
10 municipalities in Croatia where there is a predominantly Serb
population,
11 there were inscriptions saying: "This is Serbia." So it is persons
who
12 came from Serbia who manipulated the Serb masses in Serbia? Why?
Because
13 Milosevic needed to bring about an insurgency of the Serbs in
Croatia so
14 that he would light the initial fuse for setting Bosnia-Herzegovina
on
15 fire, because he needed Bosnia-Herzegovina. That's what the accused
16 actually did. That is why he should be held accountable. These
radical
17 statements, regrettably, are only in response to statements made by
the
18 accused.
19 Q. Mr. Mesic, do you see that you're not testifying about anything
20 here except your political and propaganda activities all this time?
21 Because you do not have a single fact here; you only have your own
22 positions and your attacks against Milosevic.
23 A. This is the trial of the accused Slobodan Milosevic. I have
24 sufficient facts in order to believe that he is guilty because he
planned
25 war, he carried out war, and he built into this plan a crime that
he
Page 10648
1 should be held accountable for.
2 Q. Very well.
3 JUDGE MAY: Let us get back to the subject-matter of the trial.
4 Yes. You are asking about the statements, Mr. Milosevic.
5 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
6 Q. I put a question. I said: These laws and the atmosphere in
7 parliament, the atmosphere in Croatia, the dismissals of thousands
of
8 persons from the administration, from the police, from the media,
even
9 from the health sector, is that the kind of atmosphere that caused
concern
10 among the Serbs, or was it, as Mr. Mesic just put it now, was it
Milosevic
11 who caused concern and who led to this insurgency? Were these facts
of
12 life the thing that caused concern among them or did Milosevic come
from
13 Serbia to make them start a rebellion, now that I've quoted all of
this?
14 A. It wasn't the accused Milosevic who came. His emissaries came,
15 and they were the ones who started the insurgency in Croatia.
16 JUDGE MAY: Can you deal with the allegations which are made,
17 that, first of all, there were the dismissals of thousands of
persons from
18 the administration and the police and the media and the health
sector?
19 Now, can you deal with that, Mr. Mesic? Were thousands dismissed?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I think that it is an exaggeration
21 to speak of thousands, but that there were dismissals is a fact.
There
22 were unnecessary dismissals. People also took those who dismissed
them to
23 court and won these cases. I think that these statements that are
radical
24 and inadmissible only work to Croatia's detriment, and I always
struggled
25 against that.
Page 10649
1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. All right. So the atmosphere and the statements -- I mean, you
3 say now that it is negative, but the atmosphere was there, wasn't
it? So
4 it's not Milosevic who caused an insurgency among the Serbs; it is
your
5 laws, your pressures, your behaviour, your attacks against people.
Is
6 that right or is that not right, Mr. Mesic?
7 A. I have to reply once again, and I've already said this.
8 Q. If you've already said it, please don't read out what you've
9 already read out, please.
10 A. Those who wanted to cut off parts of Croatia, parts of the
11 Republic of Croatia, those are the ones who are to be blamed for
the
12 radical statements that were made.
13 Q. Well, look, somebody wanted to cut off parts of your territory.
14 Susanne Woodward from the Brooking Institution, an institution of
high
15 renown throughout the world, she says:
16 "Smashed stores fronts, fire bombs thrown and harassed and
17 arrested potential Serb leaders. In many parts of Croatia Serbs
were
18 expelled from jobs because of their nationality."
19 JUDGE MAY: You can call her to give evidence if you want. Yes.
20 Was there an atmosphere, Mr. Mesic, to cause the Serbs to have
21 fear at this time or is that not so?
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It is an exaggeration to say that
23 there was an atmosphere of fear, but that there were improper and
24 inadmissible statements, that is a fact. Also there were dismissals
that
25 were wrong; however, people took those who dismissed them to court
and
Page 10650
1 they won those cases.
2 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. You mean those 100,000 Serbs who fled Croatia already in 1990,
4 they won these cases for their own jobs; is that what you're trying
to
5 say?
6 A. The accused is a lawyer, and he knows that only a person who is a
7 plaintiff can win a case.
8 Q. Well, we heard your own statements of a few minutes ago about
9 those murders, what kind of rule of law you had. We're going to hear
10 others later as well. I assume that you're not joking now when
you're
11 referring to --
12 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Milosevic, the time has come to move on from this
13 sort of argument, which doesn't assist the Court.
14 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
15 Q. Tell me, Mr. Mesic: Do you remember the statement made by the
16 famous artist Edo Murtic in Novi Liste [phoen], a daily from
Rijeka, made
17 in June 2000? I'm quoting him: "I remember how a few months prior
to the
18 elections in 1990" - he is referring to his conversation with
Tudjman -
19 "how he came to me quite delighted, believing that he would turn me
into
20 his Augustincic. He thought that we would now do what the Ustashas
and
21 Pavelic did not do in 1941. He said that he would send 250.000
Serbs
22 packing away and the remaining 250.000 would be killed." So these
are
23 your own newspapers. It's not a Belgrade newspaper. This is Edo
Murtic,
24 a famous artist, painter, a well-known intellectual. Do you
remember that
25 statement of his about this conversation before the elections in
1990?
Page 10651
1 And I quoted Susan Woodward a few minutes ago and she is referring
to the
2 atmosphere before 1990, before the elections.
3 JUDGE MAY: The witness can deal with the conversation by -- or
4 comments by the artist which has been referred to.
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The artist Edo Murtic is a friend of
6 mine, by the way, but I do admit that I haven't read that particular
7 statement of his.
8 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
9 Q. All right. Tell me, please: I'm just going to briefly quote the
10 newspaper Feral Tribune on the 21st of April, 2001, autumn 2001,
there was
11 a hunt against the Serbs in 1991. It says: "Mercep's killers were
12 killing Serbs en masse in Pogracka [phoen], Puljane [phoen], they
were
13 taking people out of their homes in Zagreb and they were trying
them but
14 firing bullets into their heads. Norac Oreskovic and others applied
15 similar methods when dealing with the innocent Serbs of Gospic.
16 Spectacular Crystal Nights were organised in Zadar during which
tens of
17 houses were destroyed whose inhabitants had the wrong chromosomes."
18 Is that correct, Mr. Mesic? Is that what the Croatian newspaper
19 Feral Tribune said or did this Croatian newspaper lie when they
said that?
20 A. There were crimes, and I always asked for them to be
investigated
21 and the perpetrators to be punished. Croatia did not have
sufficient rule
22 of law, and after all, that is how I won the election, because I
have been
23 calling for true rule of law in Croatia. Crimes were committed and
24 perpetrators should be brought to justice. But that is no reason
for
25 destroying Dubrovnik, for destroying Vukovar, for destroying
Croatian
Page 10652
1 cities. Criminals should be prosecuted, but towns should not be
2 destroyed.
3 Q. Correct. Perpetrators should be prosecuted, perpetrators should
4 be tried, but the only question is: Who criminals were. Who were the
5 criminals? That's the only question. And criminals should certainly
be
6 prosecuted and brought to justice, certainly.
7 So that is the whole point. That is the inversion that was made,
8 Mr. Mesic; isn't that right? You are testifying here that I was the
one
9 who broke up Yugoslavia and you were in favour of Yugoslavia and any
child
10 in Yugoslavia knows --
11 A. I think that we can reach agreement on one thing very quickly
12 here. I am not the person on trial here.
13 Q. Well, that's the point.
14 JUDGE MAY: We're going to adjourn now. It's time, Mr. Milosevic.
15 Half past. Twenty minutes.
16 --- Recess taken at 10.29 a.m.
17 --- On resuming at 10.54 a.m.
18 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Milosevic.
19 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
20 Q. I'm going to show you now that you weren't speaking the truth a
21 moment ago when we were discussing an issue and questions about the
people
22 who were fighting in Bosnia who were not volunteers. And when I
asked you
23 about your nephew, who was also in Bosnia, a Croatian soldier
there, and
24 he was not a volunteer. He was born in Slavonia so he was not from
Bosnia
25 either and had nothing to do with Bosnia, and you said that that
was not
Page 10653
1 true, not correct; isn't that so? Now take a look at your own
testimony
2 in a case - or rather, when you speak about this same subject, it is
page
3 7266 of the transcript - while you were testifying here in this same
4 building --
5 JUDGE MAY: This is, so we've got it, is this in -- not in
6 Dokmanovic?
7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, it isn't. It's in the other
8 case, the other trial, where Mr. Mesic was a protected witness. And
so I
9 wish to adhere to the rules, although the Slobodna Dalmacija paper
did
10 publicise this. I don't want to make explicit mention of it. And
11 Mr. Mesic, as we can see, is a witness, has been a witness in many
cases,
12 a witness for the Prosecution, which also demonstrates this
inversion.
13 JUDGE MAY: No. That's just --
14 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] That I was talking about. All
15 right. But this is what it says here. May I read it out?
16 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
17 Q. And I'm reading out your own transcript, not mine, when you're
18 talking about whether they were in Bosnia-Herzegovina. He says the
19 following: "Whether there were any, I cannot tell [In English] I
was not
20 an inspector, nor was it up to me to establish it. But my nephew
Vlatko
21 Mesic, who was a Croat soldier, he was in Bosnia. He came back from
there
22 and he was not a volunteer in Bosnia. He was born in Slavonia. He
has
23 nothing in common with Bosnia, but he was there."
24 Therefore, you told an untruth a moment ago. You even said that
25 your nephews were too young, whereas here in this transcript from
your
Page 10654
Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the
French and English transcripts.
Page 10655
1 testimony which was given under oath, you are saying something quite
2 different, in fact. Is that right, Mr. Mesic, or is it not?
3 A. My two nephews live in France, and two of them live in Belgrade.
4 And during the war, they were minors. It is a relation of mine, a
distant
5 cousin. The interpretation of that was probably erroneous. Who said
6 that -- who told me he was in Bosnia. That is what he told me and
that is
7 what I said.
8 Q. Very well.
9 MR. NICE: Your Honour, can I -- I didn't want to interrupt that
10 last exchange, given that it had started, but any further reference
to
11 protected testimony should itself be given in private session.
12 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Very well.
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't see why this should be given
14 in private session, Mr. May, when I am making no mention here of --
15 JUDGE MAY: It doesn't matter.
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] -- what it refers to, actually.
17 JUDGE MAY: Those are the Rules. Any reference to private-session
18 matters should be in private session. Yes, let's go on.
19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't see that I have infringed
20 upon your procedure in any way by having brought that up.
21 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. When you were asked by a representative of the accused, did you
as
23 a speaker take any steps for this matter to be investigated?
Because of
24 course [In English] It is the assembly's responsibility regarding
the use
25 of the army outside its border. Did you form a commission? Did you
put
Page 10656
1 this issue on agenda --
2 JUDGE MAY: We'll go into private session.
3 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Don't, please. I don't want to
4 waste time. I won't carry on with that.
5 JUDGE MAY: Very well.
6 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
7 Q. So when weren't you speaking the truth, Mr. Mesic: Now or then,
8 when you made that statement which was under oath again?
9 JUDGE MAY: He's given his explanation. If there's anything you
10 want to add, Mr. Mesic, you can.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The direct question was whether my
12 nephew was there, and I said no. A relative, a relation of mine,
was,
13 which means that individuals were there who were not born in
Bosnia. But
14 apart from that one individual that I did know, I wasn't able to
ascertain
15 who was there.
16 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
17 Q. Now, whether you say nephew or relative or distant cousin or
18 whatever I read out here, that's what it said, so there can be no
dilemmas
19 there or confusion. Let's move on.
20 Is it true that in your presence Tudjman said that at the end of
21 the war there would be 5 per cent of Serbs in Croatia, by the end
of the
22 war?
23 A. Yes, that is what he said. He said that was his assumption.
24 Q. Is it also true that he said that Tudjman thought that the 1938
25 solution for Croatia was the best one when it was the banovina of
Croatia?
Page 10657
1 A. No. It was Tudjman's position that as Vojvodina had been attached
2 to Serbia, and it was never under Serbia, even during World War II,
3 Vojvodina was under the main staff and headquarters of Croatia
because
4 Serbia did not have one. And he therefore considered that Avnoj, the
5 anti-fascist World War II council had made a mistake when to
6 Bosnia-Herzegovina as a historical Croatian province had not been
7 envisioned as autonomous province within Croatia. So that position
was
8 one that he always stood by, and he considered that
Bosnia-Herzegovina had
9 to be a whole, a whole entity, and that it must be within the
frameworks
10 of Croatia. But Avnoj, the anti-fascist council, did not take that
into
11 account. However, in the electoral campaign, he stated the facts
and said
12 that Croatia represented an oblong role with one section cut off.
But in
13 that way, he did not move any proceedings to put that right and to
ask for
14 alien territory to be attached to Croatia. After he returned from
15 Karadjordjevo, he said that Croatia was to receive the banovina
borders
16 plus Cazin and Bihac, Kladusa, and he said, as Milosevic had told
him, he
17 said: "Listen, Franjo." That's what he said. You take Cazin,
Kladusa and
18 Bihac. I don't need that. That is what we refer to as Turkish
Croatia.
19 That's what he told us. Now, whether that was what actually took
place,
20 the accused knows that better himself.
21 Q. Well, of course there was no discussion about carving up Bosnia.
22 We have already had that discussion here. But your explanations are
23 becoming relevant for you. So to recap: You weren't telling the
truth
24 with respect to the presence in Bosnia, and later on I am going to
call
25 evidence --
* Continued at: http://www.icdsm.org/more/mesic-5.htm
***** Urgent Message from Sloboda (Freedom) Association and the
International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic!
The Freedom Association in Belgrade and the ICDSM, based outside
Yugoslavia, are the two organizations formed at the request of
Slobodan
Milosevic to aid in his defense.
Up until now our main work has been threefold. We have publicized the
truth about The Hague's phony trial. We have organized research to
help President Milosevic expose NATO's lies. And we have initiated
legal action in the Dutch and European Courts.
Now our job has increased. The defense phase of the "trial" starts in
May 2003. No longer will Mr. Milosevic be limited to cross-examining
Hague witnesses. The prosecution will be forced further onto the
defensive as victims of NATO's aggression and experts from Yugoslavia
and
the NATO countries tell what really happened and expose media lies.
Moreover, Mr. Milosevic will call leaders, from East and West, some
friendly and some hostile to the truth.
The controlled mass media will undoubtedly try to suppress this
testimony as they have tried to suppress Mr. Milosevic's
cross-examinations. Nevertheless this phase of the "trial" will be the
biggest international forum ever to expose NATO's use of racism,
violence and lies to attack Yugoslavia.
We urgently need the help of all people who care about what is
happening in The Hague. Right now, Nico Steijnen , the Dutch lawyer in
the
ICDSM, is waging legal battles in the Dutch courts and before the
European Court, about which more news soon. These efforts urgently
require financial support. We now maintain a small staff of Yugoslav
lawyers in Holland, assisting and advising Mr. Milosevic full-time. We
need to expand our Dutch facilities, perhaps bringing in a
non-Yugoslav attorney full-time. Definitely we must guarantee that we
have an
office and office manager available at all times, to compile and
process evidence and for meetings with witnesses and lawyers and as a
base
for organizing press conferences.
All this costs money. And for this, we rely on those who want Mr.
Milosevic to have the best possible support for attacking NATO's lies.
************
Here's how you can help...
************
* You may contribute by credit card. By the end of September we will
have an ICDSM secure server so you can contribute directly on the
Internet.
For now, you can contribute by credit card in two ways: *
You can Contribute by Credit Card over the Telephone by calling:
ICDSM office, USA: 1 617 916-1705
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Thank you!
http://www.icdsm.org
1. The 'job offer' that led to years of sex slavery (The Daily
Telegraph)
2. In Europe, Sex Slavery Is Thriving Despite Raids (The New York
Times)
3. Investigative Report: KOSOVO SEX INDUSTRY (IWPR)
Una sintesi in lingua italiana dell'ultimo documento si puo' trovare
su: http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/crj-mailinglist/message/1920
Altri articoli recenti sul problema della "tratta delle bianche" nei
Balcani si possono trovare su:
http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/crj-mailinglist/message/1912
=== 1 ===
http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$
GWYSBEGGIXKI1QFIQMFCFGGAVCBQYIV0?xml=%2F
news%2F2002%2F10%2F21%2Fwbalk21.xml&secureRefresh=true&
_requestid=207679
THE DAILY TELEGRAPH (London)
(Filed: 21/10/2002)
The 'job offer' that led to years of sex slavery
Eve-Ann Prentice in Podgorica reports on attempts to
clamp down on the trade of young women as sex slaves
in the Balkans
Elena was a naive 19-year-old when a man started
flirting with her in the market place of her home town
in Moldova.
She and her mother were near destitute after her
father had left home and she believed the handsome
stranger when he offered her a job as a waitress at a
coastal resort in Montenegro.
Instead, she was taken to the Serbian town of Novi
Sad, where she was drugged, beaten and repeatedly
raped.
After a couple of weeks of relentless abuse, stupefied
by drink and drugs, she was taken to northern
Montenegro, where she was sold as a sex slave.
Elena is just one of countless thousands of young
women, some as young as 14, who every year become
victims of human trafficking.
It is big business for the gangsters who kidnap the
women off the streets of impoverished towns in eastern
Europe and the Balkans, or lure them with false
promises of work, then beat them into becoming unpaid
prostitutes.
Many are taken across the Adriatic to Italy, from
where they are transported to the brothels of
north-western Europe, including Britain.
Some are increasingly being held as captives in
brothels used by the army of foreign aid workers now
working across the region. Elena was luckier than
most.
After three years of being sold from one owner to
another, police raided the bar where she was
imprisoned this summer and she grabbed her chance to
escape. She was taken to a secret shelter for victims
of trafficking on the outskirts of Podgorica in
Montenegro.
Two men were arrested in the bar, including a
policeman, Vladan Bakic, who is awaiting trial. This
weekend, Elena is on her way back home to Moldova,
after spending several weeks at a high-security
shelter run by the International Organisation for
Migration.
Here the lucky few who either escape from their
captors or are rescued in police raids can find
counselling, medical care and help to return home.
Even then, the women often face hostility from their
own families, as they are forever afterwards regarded
as soiled.
Most of the victims of the trade in humans have been
from Moldova, Romania and other countries outside
Montenegro but now an increasing number are from
within the tiny mountain republic which, with Serbia,
makes up what remains of federal Yugoslavia.
"This is because standards of living have become worse
and worse here and all criminal trades flourish in
such an atmosphere," says Zana Pevicevic, who runs the
IOM's operation in Podgorica. Cuddly toys and pop star
posters testify to the youth of the victims at the
shelter.
It is dangerous work for Zana and her two assistants
who run the shelter at a modern, clean and
well-equipped house guarded by security cameras and
with a fast-response alarm system linked to the local
police.
Attitudes to the human trafficking are beginning to
change in Montenegro. There are signs that police
raids have forced the criminal gangs behind the trade
to change their main route - south through Serbia,
Montenegro and Albania - to a more northerly path. The
misery will not be ended, it will only be relocated.
letters.online@...
=== 2 ===
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/20/international/europe/20MIRA.html
THE NEW YORK TIMES, Sunday, October 20, 2002
In Europe, Sex Slavery Is Thriving Despite Raids
By DAVID BINDER
WASHINGTON, Oct. 19 - An intensive European operation conducted with
American assistance to crack down on the trafficking of women for the
sex trade has had mixed success, American officials say.
Preliminary data show that in 20,558 raids conducted from Sept. 7 to
Sept. 16 across Central and Eastern Europe, 237 victims of trafficking
were identified and 293 traffickers were arrested and charged as
criminals.
But little was done in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the focus of the
operation because it is considered a center for international
prostitution and sexual slavery as well as a major transit point to
northern Europe. National and international police officers made just
71 raids on Bosnian nightclubs, hotels and other locations during the
September operation and arrested seven trafficking suspects.
"We are gratified by what was accomplished by some of the
participating countries, but are less satisfied with others who should
have been more involved," said John F. Markey, a United States customs
agent who directs law enforcement assistance programs in the State
Department.
Regionally and globally, the problem is huge. Trafficked women from
poor regions of Ukraine, Romania, Moldova and other Central and
Eastern European countries have been turning up in the United States
as well - in Miami, New York, Los Angeles and even Anchorage.
The International Organization for Migration, an offshoot of the
United Nations, estimates that 700,000 women are transported, mostly
involuntarily, over international borders each year for the sex trade.
As many as 200,000 are taken to or through the Balkans.
The September operation was conducted by the transborder crime center
of the Southeast European Cooperative Initiative in Bucharest,
Romania, bringing together regional law enforcement agencies. The
center receives considerable assistance from the United States Customs
Service, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Immigration and
Naturalization Service, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the
Secret Service. The crime center is directed by Brig. Gen. Ferenc
Banfi of Hungary, and the antitrafficking task force is led by a
Romanian, Col. Gabriel Sotirescu.
In addition to Bosnia, the operation enlisted the assistance of
Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Macedonia, Yugoslavia, Greece, Hungary,
Moldova, Romania, Turkey and Ukraine.
The operation focused on Bosnia because, since the war there ended
seven years ago, the presence of thousands of NATO troops and civilian
workers for the United Nations and aid agencies has made it a prime
market for both prostitution and sexual slavery, officials said.
Over the past two years, both NATO soldiers and United Nations
officials, including some Americans, have been implicated in the
exploitation of young women held in sexual bondage.
Because of its porous borders - only about 40 of its 432 official
border crossings are guarded - Bosnia is also a major transit country
for trafficked women, narcotics and contraband being sent to Northern
Europe.
On Thursday, the United Nations Mission in Sarajevo dismissed 11
Bosnian police officers, including members of the antitrafficking
squad, after they were apprehended visiting brothels and abusing
prostitutes. One has been sentenced by a Bosnian court to a month's
imprisonment, the mission announced.
By contrast, Bulgaria posted large numbers during the September
operation: in 2,079 individual raids, 258 people were identified as
traffickers and 64 women as trafficking victims. Some of the women
were taken to shelters run by private groups.
Romania reported 2,597 police raids, in which 47 traffickers were
identified and 1,063 women were identified as being in the sex
industry; 37 were classified as sex slaves.
For the other participating countries, the available performance data
declined sharply, officials said.
Among the functions of the Bucharest center's approximately 30
permanent officers is to receive, evaluate and pass on information on
suspected illegal movements of people, narcotics and contraband goods
to bring about transborder law enforcement operations. More than 100
messages were exchanged during the September operation, Colonel
Sotirescu said.
The center, housed in a palace built under Romania's Communist-era
dictator, Nicolae Ceausescu, carried out its first joint action last
summer, focusing on narcotics trafficking across 15 countries from
Central Asia to the Balkans. More such operations are in the works.
Mr. Markey said the lack of cooperation the operation sometimes
encountered could be explained by political turmoil surrounding
elections in some countries, including Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia.
letters@...
=== 3 ===
IWPR'S BALKAN CRISIS REPORT, No. 355, Part II, August 2, 2002
KOSOVO SEX INDUSTRY
There was hardly any prostitution in Kosovo before the war - now it's
booming
By Jeta Xharra in Pristina
Red neon over the Nairobi bar and an arc of light slicing through a
chink in its heavily-draped window are all that illuminate the
entrance to the striptease club, where Naim, a thin Albanian man in
his twenties, stands looking bored. When he sees me he springs into
action, spreading his scrawny chest across the door. "Sorry, women
are not allowed here," he said.
The doorman, Naim, was soon joined by a colleague who said he had
visited similar nightclubs in Sweden, and considers the provision of
such "entertainment" a measure of Kosovo's recent progress. "The real
excitement here is that guys whose first journey beyond their village
was to Stankovac (a refugee camp in Macedonia) can now see women strip
here," he said.
I ask to be let in, saying that I only want to order a drink at the
bar. When that fails, I threaten to complain to the UN police about
the discriminatory entrance policy at the club. Naim will not budge.
"All the girls inside the club are on contract, if the police raid the
place and find uncontracted local girls we'll be in trouble," he said.
"Anyway, this is no place for you 'sister', do you have any idea of
why people come here?" He probably didn't expect an answer, but I
whisper back, "Per kurv'ni?" - a piece of local slang best translated
as "for whoring". Naim does not respond, but his face reddens.
Such prudishness might seem absurd from a man working at a club where
punters can buy sex with the dancers. But this is a traditional
tightly-knit society. Discussing his job with an Albanian woman was
probably as awkward for him as talking about it to his mother, or his
own sister. Naim probably justified his work on the basis that the
club - which has since closed - is staffed entirely by foreign women.
By "importing" Romanian, Moldovan or Ukrainian women, club owners and
their staff can argue that they are shielding "our women" from this
unpleasant, but lucrative business.
Unheard of three years ago, the sex industry is now the fastest
growing "business" in post-war Kosovo, which has undergone
unprecedented social and political upheaval since the 1999 conflict.
Mobilised for over a decade against the Milosevic regime, the
population now plays host to the KFOR peacekeeping force, which
provides a steady stream of clients for the protectorate's 120 or so
strip clubs.
Around 60 per cent of women working in the sex trade come from
Moldova, the others from Romania and Ukraine. However, figures from
the International Organisation of Migration, IOM, counter-trafficking
unit suggest that 70 per cent of the overseas women were lured from
their home countries with promises of jobs as cleaners, waitresses,
baby-sitters or care workers.
While the arrival of 45,000 international peacekeepers has certainly
been a key factor in the sudden growth of the industry, in research
conducted by the IOM Kosovo team last year, victims of trafficking
reported that the bulk of the clientele are local residents.
Sevdije Ahmeti, a human rights activist and director of the Centre for
the Protection of Women and Children, CPWC, also questions the image
of Kosovo as an untainted, traditional society where an imported sex
trade serves the needs of promiscuous foreigners. Traditional
Albanian family structures, in which a male breadwinner provided for
women and children, had started eroding even before the war, she says.
Many Kosovar men emigrated to western Europe during the 1990s, either
to escape the military draft or to earn the hard currency which funded
Kosovo's "parallel economy" in a period when Albanians either
boycotted or were sacked from state jobs. Their absence altered the
traditional balance of roles between the sexes.
Kosovar society was then traumatised by the events of spring 1999, as
the majority of men were left powerless to defend their families in
the face of Serbian army tactics, which included rape and gang rape.
This "weapon" was not only used against women, but also to humiliate
and emasculate the men who were supposed to be their protectors.
Claims by local men that no Kosovar women work in the sex industry are
open to dispute. A local safe house set up by CPWC in 1996, to offer
refuge to Bosnian women who had been raped during the 1991-5 war, has
helped hundreds of women from across the former Yugoslavia, including
a significant number from Kosovo.
Tina, a Kosovar girl who sought sanctuary at the refuge, was kept as a
virtual slave in a Mitrovica nightclub for two years. Her clientele
was divided between locals who visited the club and military personnel
to whom she was "delivered" at checkpoints and barracks across
northern Kosovo.
In practice, the traditional attitudes that are believed to "protect"
Kosovar women from the sex trade leave victims of trafficking and
sexual crimes largely unprotected by the law.
One teenage victim of abduction and gang rape received scant support
from the legal system.
Violeta, 16, was kidnapped by two young Albanian men on her way to
school in Pristina three years ago. She was taken to a bar, which
promptly closed for the day. After drawing the curtains, the men and
their friends raped her repeatedly. She was allowed to return home in
the evenings, but the kidnappers threatened to ruin her reputation if
she said a word to anyone. Terrified, Violeta, did not dare tell her
parents what had happened and her ordeal was repeated several times.
She became pregnant and had an abortion before her abductors were
eventually caught. She testified against them, but they were released
for "lack of evidence".
Three years on, her life is still severely restricted. "My kidnappers
can go wherever they want, I only dare to go out in the company of my
mother or father," she said. "I had to drop out of school, because
they would follow me and ask my teachers where I was."
The first judge Violeta encountered told her to be less emotional and
stop crying about her ordeal, which, he said, was clearly her own
fault. With the support of her parents and the CPWC, she is now
pushing for a new hearing of her case at the Pristina district court,
but her experience shows the attitude rife among local men and even
judges that women willingly engage in sexual activities in the various
strip joints and bars. It is a view that conveniently overlooks the
fact that girls may have been trafficked or abducted.
Urosevac (Ferizaj in Albanian) is a grim little town with a population
of 130,000 in the south-east of Kosovo, bordering Macedonia. Even
before the war the town had a bad reputation, with the level of drug
dealing and underworld activity earning it the title of Kosovo's
gangster capital. The nightclubs here are more relaxed than in
Pristina.
Anyone - including a woman - can walk into the clubs and the owners
seem unconcerned about regulations or the police. Their confidence is
well-placed. "You don't just go and raid off-limits clubs in
Ferizaj," exclaimed Jamie Higgins, head of the UNMIK Trafficking and
Prostitution Unit, TPIU, when I asked if I could join a police swoop
in the town. As a centre of organised crime, a crackdown on the town
would require detailed planning and extensive numbers of police on the
ground - more than the TPIU has at its disposal, he said.
On the outskirts of the Freizaj is the Madonna nightclub, a former
family house turned striptease joint. In the corner, girls were
putting on bikinis, ready to perform. Following a signal from an
Albanian pimp, a blonde girl dancing on the podium made way for a dark
girl, who began an elaborate gyration to Michael Jackson's ballad
"Liberian Girl". A clientele of Albanian men, old and young, relaxed,
surrounded by groups of foreign women.
This is where Gezim, a local resident and acquaintance from high
school, brought me when I asked him to show me the place where he had
tried to "order" a girl for a friend who he thought had "a problem" in
that department.
"We stood outside the club almost all night after the dancing
finished, but we couldn't get anything," he told me. "Other people
were bidding and by the end there were no women left. The demand was
high so I don't think we could have afforded them anyway."
We also visited the Apachi Club, named after the famous US Apache
helicopters and one of the first clubs to open after the NATO action.
Armed with Hellfire amour-piercing missiles, the aircraft were much
vaunted during the war as the only military hardware capable of
stopping the Yugoslav tanks and troops ethnically cleansing the
province. The Americans' reluctance to deploy the helicopters, and
their frequent crashes during training exercises in northern Albania,
did not deter the owners. They probably hoped to attract a clientele
from the US military base Camp Bondsteel, 14 km away.
It seems to have worked. "I drive both civilians and uniformed men to
these clubs," said a taxi driver waiting outside the Apachi club,
sometimes also - confusingly - known as the Arizona club. "Some have
even changed into civilian clothing in my car. Of course, the locals
think this is bad for the area. It's a bad example for the young if
they see these things, but soldiers will be soldiers and they won't
stay on base if there is a night-club outside."
Outside the Apachi, a string of red Christmas lights hang neatly
around the entrance. Inside, the corridor leading to the striptease
room was festooned with pictures of helicopters.
By 2 am, the dancing was over. Semi-naked, heavily made-up girls
accompanied men to different tables, to negotiate "business" for the
night. With heavy local patronage and little international appetite
to take punitive action, scenes like this one look set to continue in
Kosovo for many nights to come.
Jeta Xharra is a freelance researcher/journalist & recent MA graduate
from the War Studies department, at King's College London
[WARNING:
Balkan Crisis Report, by IWPR, is an anti-yugoslav and serbophobic
newsletter supported by the Department for International
Development, the European Commission, the Swedish International
Development and Cooperation Agency, The Netherlands Ministry for
Foreign Affairs, and other funders. IWPR also acknowledges general
support from the Ford Foundation.
For further details on this project, other information services and
media programmes, visit IWPR's website: www.iwpr.net
C.N.J.]
Telegraph)
2. In Europe, Sex Slavery Is Thriving Despite Raids (The New York
Times)
3. Investigative Report: KOSOVO SEX INDUSTRY (IWPR)
Una sintesi in lingua italiana dell'ultimo documento si puo' trovare
su: http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/crj-mailinglist/message/1920
Altri articoli recenti sul problema della "tratta delle bianche" nei
Balcani si possono trovare su:
http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/crj-mailinglist/message/1912
=== 1 ===
http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$
GWYSBEGGIXKI1QFIQMFCFGGAVCBQYIV0?xml=%2F
news%2F2002%2F10%2F21%2Fwbalk21.xml&secureRefresh=true&
_requestid=207679
THE DAILY TELEGRAPH (London)
(Filed: 21/10/2002)
The 'job offer' that led to years of sex slavery
Eve-Ann Prentice in Podgorica reports on attempts to
clamp down on the trade of young women as sex slaves
in the Balkans
Elena was a naive 19-year-old when a man started
flirting with her in the market place of her home town
in Moldova.
She and her mother were near destitute after her
father had left home and she believed the handsome
stranger when he offered her a job as a waitress at a
coastal resort in Montenegro.
Instead, she was taken to the Serbian town of Novi
Sad, where she was drugged, beaten and repeatedly
raped.
After a couple of weeks of relentless abuse, stupefied
by drink and drugs, she was taken to northern
Montenegro, where she was sold as a sex slave.
Elena is just one of countless thousands of young
women, some as young as 14, who every year become
victims of human trafficking.
It is big business for the gangsters who kidnap the
women off the streets of impoverished towns in eastern
Europe and the Balkans, or lure them with false
promises of work, then beat them into becoming unpaid
prostitutes.
Many are taken across the Adriatic to Italy, from
where they are transported to the brothels of
north-western Europe, including Britain.
Some are increasingly being held as captives in
brothels used by the army of foreign aid workers now
working across the region. Elena was luckier than
most.
After three years of being sold from one owner to
another, police raided the bar where she was
imprisoned this summer and she grabbed her chance to
escape. She was taken to a secret shelter for victims
of trafficking on the outskirts of Podgorica in
Montenegro.
Two men were arrested in the bar, including a
policeman, Vladan Bakic, who is awaiting trial. This
weekend, Elena is on her way back home to Moldova,
after spending several weeks at a high-security
shelter run by the International Organisation for
Migration.
Here the lucky few who either escape from their
captors or are rescued in police raids can find
counselling, medical care and help to return home.
Even then, the women often face hostility from their
own families, as they are forever afterwards regarded
as soiled.
Most of the victims of the trade in humans have been
from Moldova, Romania and other countries outside
Montenegro but now an increasing number are from
within the tiny mountain republic which, with Serbia,
makes up what remains of federal Yugoslavia.
"This is because standards of living have become worse
and worse here and all criminal trades flourish in
such an atmosphere," says Zana Pevicevic, who runs the
IOM's operation in Podgorica. Cuddly toys and pop star
posters testify to the youth of the victims at the
shelter.
It is dangerous work for Zana and her two assistants
who run the shelter at a modern, clean and
well-equipped house guarded by security cameras and
with a fast-response alarm system linked to the local
police.
Attitudes to the human trafficking are beginning to
change in Montenegro. There are signs that police
raids have forced the criminal gangs behind the trade
to change their main route - south through Serbia,
Montenegro and Albania - to a more northerly path. The
misery will not be ended, it will only be relocated.
letters.online@...
=== 2 ===
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/20/international/europe/20MIRA.html
THE NEW YORK TIMES, Sunday, October 20, 2002
In Europe, Sex Slavery Is Thriving Despite Raids
By DAVID BINDER
WASHINGTON, Oct. 19 - An intensive European operation conducted with
American assistance to crack down on the trafficking of women for the
sex trade has had mixed success, American officials say.
Preliminary data show that in 20,558 raids conducted from Sept. 7 to
Sept. 16 across Central and Eastern Europe, 237 victims of trafficking
were identified and 293 traffickers were arrested and charged as
criminals.
But little was done in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the focus of the
operation because it is considered a center for international
prostitution and sexual slavery as well as a major transit point to
northern Europe. National and international police officers made just
71 raids on Bosnian nightclubs, hotels and other locations during the
September operation and arrested seven trafficking suspects.
"We are gratified by what was accomplished by some of the
participating countries, but are less satisfied with others who should
have been more involved," said John F. Markey, a United States customs
agent who directs law enforcement assistance programs in the State
Department.
Regionally and globally, the problem is huge. Trafficked women from
poor regions of Ukraine, Romania, Moldova and other Central and
Eastern European countries have been turning up in the United States
as well - in Miami, New York, Los Angeles and even Anchorage.
The International Organization for Migration, an offshoot of the
United Nations, estimates that 700,000 women are transported, mostly
involuntarily, over international borders each year for the sex trade.
As many as 200,000 are taken to or through the Balkans.
The September operation was conducted by the transborder crime center
of the Southeast European Cooperative Initiative in Bucharest,
Romania, bringing together regional law enforcement agencies. The
center receives considerable assistance from the United States Customs
Service, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Immigration and
Naturalization Service, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the
Secret Service. The crime center is directed by Brig. Gen. Ferenc
Banfi of Hungary, and the antitrafficking task force is led by a
Romanian, Col. Gabriel Sotirescu.
In addition to Bosnia, the operation enlisted the assistance of
Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Macedonia, Yugoslavia, Greece, Hungary,
Moldova, Romania, Turkey and Ukraine.
The operation focused on Bosnia because, since the war there ended
seven years ago, the presence of thousands of NATO troops and civilian
workers for the United Nations and aid agencies has made it a prime
market for both prostitution and sexual slavery, officials said.
Over the past two years, both NATO soldiers and United Nations
officials, including some Americans, have been implicated in the
exploitation of young women held in sexual bondage.
Because of its porous borders - only about 40 of its 432 official
border crossings are guarded - Bosnia is also a major transit country
for trafficked women, narcotics and contraband being sent to Northern
Europe.
On Thursday, the United Nations Mission in Sarajevo dismissed 11
Bosnian police officers, including members of the antitrafficking
squad, after they were apprehended visiting brothels and abusing
prostitutes. One has been sentenced by a Bosnian court to a month's
imprisonment, the mission announced.
By contrast, Bulgaria posted large numbers during the September
operation: in 2,079 individual raids, 258 people were identified as
traffickers and 64 women as trafficking victims. Some of the women
were taken to shelters run by private groups.
Romania reported 2,597 police raids, in which 47 traffickers were
identified and 1,063 women were identified as being in the sex
industry; 37 were classified as sex slaves.
For the other participating countries, the available performance data
declined sharply, officials said.
Among the functions of the Bucharest center's approximately 30
permanent officers is to receive, evaluate and pass on information on
suspected illegal movements of people, narcotics and contraband goods
to bring about transborder law enforcement operations. More than 100
messages were exchanged during the September operation, Colonel
Sotirescu said.
The center, housed in a palace built under Romania's Communist-era
dictator, Nicolae Ceausescu, carried out its first joint action last
summer, focusing on narcotics trafficking across 15 countries from
Central Asia to the Balkans. More such operations are in the works.
Mr. Markey said the lack of cooperation the operation sometimes
encountered could be explained by political turmoil surrounding
elections in some countries, including Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia.
letters@...
=== 3 ===
IWPR'S BALKAN CRISIS REPORT, No. 355, Part II, August 2, 2002
KOSOVO SEX INDUSTRY
There was hardly any prostitution in Kosovo before the war - now it's
booming
By Jeta Xharra in Pristina
Red neon over the Nairobi bar and an arc of light slicing through a
chink in its heavily-draped window are all that illuminate the
entrance to the striptease club, where Naim, a thin Albanian man in
his twenties, stands looking bored. When he sees me he springs into
action, spreading his scrawny chest across the door. "Sorry, women
are not allowed here," he said.
The doorman, Naim, was soon joined by a colleague who said he had
visited similar nightclubs in Sweden, and considers the provision of
such "entertainment" a measure of Kosovo's recent progress. "The real
excitement here is that guys whose first journey beyond their village
was to Stankovac (a refugee camp in Macedonia) can now see women strip
here," he said.
I ask to be let in, saying that I only want to order a drink at the
bar. When that fails, I threaten to complain to the UN police about
the discriminatory entrance policy at the club. Naim will not budge.
"All the girls inside the club are on contract, if the police raid the
place and find uncontracted local girls we'll be in trouble," he said.
"Anyway, this is no place for you 'sister', do you have any idea of
why people come here?" He probably didn't expect an answer, but I
whisper back, "Per kurv'ni?" - a piece of local slang best translated
as "for whoring". Naim does not respond, but his face reddens.
Such prudishness might seem absurd from a man working at a club where
punters can buy sex with the dancers. But this is a traditional
tightly-knit society. Discussing his job with an Albanian woman was
probably as awkward for him as talking about it to his mother, or his
own sister. Naim probably justified his work on the basis that the
club - which has since closed - is staffed entirely by foreign women.
By "importing" Romanian, Moldovan or Ukrainian women, club owners and
their staff can argue that they are shielding "our women" from this
unpleasant, but lucrative business.
Unheard of three years ago, the sex industry is now the fastest
growing "business" in post-war Kosovo, which has undergone
unprecedented social and political upheaval since the 1999 conflict.
Mobilised for over a decade against the Milosevic regime, the
population now plays host to the KFOR peacekeeping force, which
provides a steady stream of clients for the protectorate's 120 or so
strip clubs.
Around 60 per cent of women working in the sex trade come from
Moldova, the others from Romania and Ukraine. However, figures from
the International Organisation of Migration, IOM, counter-trafficking
unit suggest that 70 per cent of the overseas women were lured from
their home countries with promises of jobs as cleaners, waitresses,
baby-sitters or care workers.
While the arrival of 45,000 international peacekeepers has certainly
been a key factor in the sudden growth of the industry, in research
conducted by the IOM Kosovo team last year, victims of trafficking
reported that the bulk of the clientele are local residents.
Sevdije Ahmeti, a human rights activist and director of the Centre for
the Protection of Women and Children, CPWC, also questions the image
of Kosovo as an untainted, traditional society where an imported sex
trade serves the needs of promiscuous foreigners. Traditional
Albanian family structures, in which a male breadwinner provided for
women and children, had started eroding even before the war, she says.
Many Kosovar men emigrated to western Europe during the 1990s, either
to escape the military draft or to earn the hard currency which funded
Kosovo's "parallel economy" in a period when Albanians either
boycotted or were sacked from state jobs. Their absence altered the
traditional balance of roles between the sexes.
Kosovar society was then traumatised by the events of spring 1999, as
the majority of men were left powerless to defend their families in
the face of Serbian army tactics, which included rape and gang rape.
This "weapon" was not only used against women, but also to humiliate
and emasculate the men who were supposed to be their protectors.
Claims by local men that no Kosovar women work in the sex industry are
open to dispute. A local safe house set up by CPWC in 1996, to offer
refuge to Bosnian women who had been raped during the 1991-5 war, has
helped hundreds of women from across the former Yugoslavia, including
a significant number from Kosovo.
Tina, a Kosovar girl who sought sanctuary at the refuge, was kept as a
virtual slave in a Mitrovica nightclub for two years. Her clientele
was divided between locals who visited the club and military personnel
to whom she was "delivered" at checkpoints and barracks across
northern Kosovo.
In practice, the traditional attitudes that are believed to "protect"
Kosovar women from the sex trade leave victims of trafficking and
sexual crimes largely unprotected by the law.
One teenage victim of abduction and gang rape received scant support
from the legal system.
Violeta, 16, was kidnapped by two young Albanian men on her way to
school in Pristina three years ago. She was taken to a bar, which
promptly closed for the day. After drawing the curtains, the men and
their friends raped her repeatedly. She was allowed to return home in
the evenings, but the kidnappers threatened to ruin her reputation if
she said a word to anyone. Terrified, Violeta, did not dare tell her
parents what had happened and her ordeal was repeated several times.
She became pregnant and had an abortion before her abductors were
eventually caught. She testified against them, but they were released
for "lack of evidence".
Three years on, her life is still severely restricted. "My kidnappers
can go wherever they want, I only dare to go out in the company of my
mother or father," she said. "I had to drop out of school, because
they would follow me and ask my teachers where I was."
The first judge Violeta encountered told her to be less emotional and
stop crying about her ordeal, which, he said, was clearly her own
fault. With the support of her parents and the CPWC, she is now
pushing for a new hearing of her case at the Pristina district court,
but her experience shows the attitude rife among local men and even
judges that women willingly engage in sexual activities in the various
strip joints and bars. It is a view that conveniently overlooks the
fact that girls may have been trafficked or abducted.
Urosevac (Ferizaj in Albanian) is a grim little town with a population
of 130,000 in the south-east of Kosovo, bordering Macedonia. Even
before the war the town had a bad reputation, with the level of drug
dealing and underworld activity earning it the title of Kosovo's
gangster capital. The nightclubs here are more relaxed than in
Pristina.
Anyone - including a woman - can walk into the clubs and the owners
seem unconcerned about regulations or the police. Their confidence is
well-placed. "You don't just go and raid off-limits clubs in
Ferizaj," exclaimed Jamie Higgins, head of the UNMIK Trafficking and
Prostitution Unit, TPIU, when I asked if I could join a police swoop
in the town. As a centre of organised crime, a crackdown on the town
would require detailed planning and extensive numbers of police on the
ground - more than the TPIU has at its disposal, he said.
On the outskirts of the Freizaj is the Madonna nightclub, a former
family house turned striptease joint. In the corner, girls were
putting on bikinis, ready to perform. Following a signal from an
Albanian pimp, a blonde girl dancing on the podium made way for a dark
girl, who began an elaborate gyration to Michael Jackson's ballad
"Liberian Girl". A clientele of Albanian men, old and young, relaxed,
surrounded by groups of foreign women.
This is where Gezim, a local resident and acquaintance from high
school, brought me when I asked him to show me the place where he had
tried to "order" a girl for a friend who he thought had "a problem" in
that department.
"We stood outside the club almost all night after the dancing
finished, but we couldn't get anything," he told me. "Other people
were bidding and by the end there were no women left. The demand was
high so I don't think we could have afforded them anyway."
We also visited the Apachi Club, named after the famous US Apache
helicopters and one of the first clubs to open after the NATO action.
Armed with Hellfire amour-piercing missiles, the aircraft were much
vaunted during the war as the only military hardware capable of
stopping the Yugoslav tanks and troops ethnically cleansing the
province. The Americans' reluctance to deploy the helicopters, and
their frequent crashes during training exercises in northern Albania,
did not deter the owners. They probably hoped to attract a clientele
from the US military base Camp Bondsteel, 14 km away.
It seems to have worked. "I drive both civilians and uniformed men to
these clubs," said a taxi driver waiting outside the Apachi club,
sometimes also - confusingly - known as the Arizona club. "Some have
even changed into civilian clothing in my car. Of course, the locals
think this is bad for the area. It's a bad example for the young if
they see these things, but soldiers will be soldiers and they won't
stay on base if there is a night-club outside."
Outside the Apachi, a string of red Christmas lights hang neatly
around the entrance. Inside, the corridor leading to the striptease
room was festooned with pictures of helicopters.
By 2 am, the dancing was over. Semi-naked, heavily made-up girls
accompanied men to different tables, to negotiate "business" for the
night. With heavy local patronage and little international appetite
to take punitive action, scenes like this one look set to continue in
Kosovo for many nights to come.
Jeta Xharra is a freelance researcher/journalist & recent MA graduate
from the War Studies department, at King's College London
[WARNING:
Balkan Crisis Report, by IWPR, is an anti-yugoslav and serbophobic
newsletter supported by the Department for International
Development, the European Commission, the Swedish International
Development and Cooperation Agency, The Netherlands Ministry for
Foreign Affairs, and other funders. IWPR also acknowledges general
support from the Ford Foundation.
For further details on this project, other information services and
media programmes, visit IWPR's website: www.iwpr.net
C.N.J.]
International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic
www.icdsm.org
=================================
Slobodan Milosevic's Cross-Examination of
Croatian President Stjepan Mesic: PART V
Because the transcript of the cross-examination
is 150 pages long we have broken it into 12 easy
to read segments. If you wish to read the whole thing
at once go to: http://www.icdsm.org/more/mesic.htm
=================================
Page 10658
1 JUDGE MAY: Just a moment. Just a moment. The witness has said
2 he's telling the truth. Now, don't misrepresent the evidence. If
you've
3 got a question, you can ask it.
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I think that we differ because of
5 the translation in your transcript, where it says nephew, and he
says
6 relative or distant cousin, whereas otherwise there is no
difference.
7 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
8 Q. Now, to get back to what you were just saying, that you had no
9 intentions of any kind, Globus, the paper, this is a special
edition,
10 November 1, 1999, which says the following:
11 "Tudjman was in Canada, paid a state visit to Canada in 1988 and
12 1989 [As interpreted] -- 1998 and 1999, and dovetailed concepts,
first
13 that Croatia had to be independent and autonomous, and so on and so
14 forth. Third, that the Serbs must be brought to the level of a
national
15 minority, which meant that Croatia should have been more or less
16 ethnically pure. And fourth, if there are Serbs in
Bosnia-Herzegovina to
17 the extent that they cannot all be expelled to Serbia, all that
remains is
18 to carve up Bosnia-Herzegovina, which will ensure pure Croatian
regions
19 and certain restructuring, and this would be joined onto an
ethnically
20 pure Croatian state." Isn't that right, Mr. Mesic?
21 A. I don't know who said that.
22 Q. This is something that can be read in Globus about a plan that
was
23 dovetailed in 1988 and 1989 [As interpreted] in Canada with the
Ustasha
24 émigrés. Do you know at all about that?
25 A. I know nothing about that plan whatsoever.
Page 10659
1 Q. All right. Thank you. Now, on the basis of what you were saying
2 a moment ago, is it true and correct that Tudjman considered the
3 territories that belonged to the 1938 banovina, that it should be
annexed
4 to Croatia? Is that what he thought? Is that right or not? Annexed.
5 A. He said that that was what Milosevic had proposed.
6 Q. Just a minute. I'm speaking about something else now. I don't
7 want to show you the transcript once again, but you can look at the
8 transcript from that same trial where you testified and the number
of the
9 transcript line is 7130. But to avoid having to go into private
session,
10 I just want to jog your memory and tell you that you did speak
about the
11 subject at that particular time.
12 And just as like a moment ago, when you challenged the fact that
13 Tudjman thought that for Croatia the best solution would be the
1938
14 banovina solution, also from your testimony, on page 7129 and 7130,
you
15 said what you said. So tell me now: Is it true that the HDZ party
for
16 you was an extremist nationalistic --
17 MR. NICE: If this line of questioning is to be of any value at
18 all --
19 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, Mr. Nice.
20 MR. NICE: If this is to be of any value at all, the following
21 thing should happen: The Chamber will have to go into private
session,
22 not because itself necessarily wants to. It simply that this was
23 protected evidence of another Chamber and we don't have rights to
do
24 anything else. Second, the transcript will then have to be examined
25 properly with the witness being in a position to read it and the
Chamber
Page 10660
1 being able to see the full context.
2 JUDGE MAY: At the moment I do not wish to go into private
3 session. It cuts up the cross-examination, makes it very difficult
for
4 everybody else to follow. If there is a significant point here, no
doubt
5 our attention can be drawn to it.
6 MR. NICE: Can I simply also then ask that the accused reminds me,
7 or through the Chamber, of what page he says its was on which the
first
8 reference was to be found. He says 7266 but it doesn't match my page
9 numbering.
10 JUDGE MAY: That's the note we have, 7266.
11 Mr. Milosevic, you will have -- if you want to quote from the
12 transcript, if there's any significance in what was said earlier,
do you
13 want to quote from the transcript, we have to go into private
session.
14 Those are the rules which we have to follow. Now, if we can avoid
doing
15 that, we should do so.
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. May, but it is not proper
17 and correct that the public should not be able to see this, that
18 Mr. Mesic, for the most part --
19 JUDGE MAY: It doesn't matter about that. It is the Rules which
20 we have to follow. This was private session evidence, therefore it
should
21 be dealt with in private session. Now, do you want to ask anything
more
22 about that transcript or not?
23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. I'll ask him something
24 about -- something else from the transcript in the Dokmanovic
trial, where
25 he wasn't a protected witness.
Page 10661
1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. Is it correct that the HDZ is an extremist nationalistic party
3 which introduced a uniform, unilateral way of thought that captured
people
4 in this way? Is that what you think? And you expressed words to that
5 effect in the Dokmanovic trial, where you were not a protected
witness.
6 The transcript page is 1714 in the testimony against him, and that
is
7 where you made a statement to that effect. You said that that was
your
8 opinion later on, not straight away, not from the very outset. So
when
9 did you come to think that way?
10 JUDGE MAY: Wait a moment. In order that the witness can deal
11 with this properly, have we got a copy of the transcript, Mr. Nice?
First
12 of all, have we got a copy of the transcript.
13 MR. NICE: Yes.
14 JUDGE MAY: Secondly, can the witness follow it?
15 MR. NICE: It's in English, I'm afraid, so he probably can't
16 follow it, because his English is not probably at the level to deal
with
17 that. But we have a copy for Your Honours if Your Honours haven't
seen
18 it.
19 JUDGE MAY: We, we have it here.
20 Mr. Mesic -- I'll deal with it. Mr. Mesic, what is being put to
21 you in the passage which the accused is asking you about is counsel
says,
22 counsel Mr. Fila, put: "We read that for you the HDZ is an
extremist
23 nationalist party, a hindrance to democracy which introduced a
single way
24 of thinking and which robbed the people. Is that what you really
meant?"
25 And you replied: To look at this in terms of the period -- time
period
Page 10662
Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the
French and English transcripts.
Page 10663
1 involved. "Okay," said witness. "Have you said something like this?"
2 And you replied: "The statement of yours calls for clarification,
namely,
3 when the HDZ was established first, when I was its member, when its
4 programme was elaborated, that was a party that was in favour of a
5 multiparty system for democratisation of free society. When the
balance
6 of political forces in the HDZ changed, I left the HDZ and I became
7 critical of the policy."
8 So counsel then put: That is to say that this statement,
9 obviously referring to his earlier statement, is from the latter
period.
10 And you replied: Yes, from the latter period.
11 Now, you're being asked about the comment that the HDZ was or
12 became an extreme nationalist party, a hindrance to democracy,
introducing
13 a single way of thinking. Can you help us as to whether you said
that,
14 and if you wish to elaborate on it, do.
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] When the HDZ was formed, just like
16 the other parties in Croatia, after the socialist model, I wanted
to have
17 a multiparty system. That's what I was in favour of, of a contest
of
18 opinion of democracy. That's what I wanted. Now, as the threats
were
19 coming from Serbia, threats which the accused himself, via his
rallies,
20 was sending out to Croatia, and they were coming from Vojvodina,
from
21 Serbia, and from Kosovo, the so-called rallies for truth, where it
was
22 stated that the people attending the rallies would go as far as
Ljubljana
23 and that what they would do was to stop over in Zagreb, topple the
24 government there, and carry on by way of passing. I considered that
the
25 HDZ could mobilise in Croatia people for setting up resistance to
that
Page 10664
1 kind of policy on the part of Milosevic, and I joined the HDZ
because I
2 considered that we would be able to protect the interests of the
Republic
3 of Croatia. However, because of the erroneous policy which prevailed
4 later on, or rather, the erroneous policy towards and vis-a-vis
5 Bosnia-Herzegovina, the wrong model of privatisation which was seen
and
6 the insufficient functioning of the rule of law in the country, the
7 insufficient functioning of the institutions inherent in the rule of
law,
8 I left that policy behind. I stepped down from it, because finally I
9 could still go on being the president of the Sabor parliament. I had
to
10 take part in that policy and politics. But as I did not agree with
the
11 policies, I left the post of president of parliament and joined the
12 opposition.
13 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
14 Q. Mr. Mesic, you relinquished the post of president of parliament,
15 as you said a moment ago, only after the first quarter of 1994.
However,
16 the destructive policy of the HDZ, according to you, began already
in
17 March 1991; isn't that so?
18 A. Yes, you're quite right. From your agreement in Karadjordjevo.
19 Q. So you ascribe the destructive policy of the HDZ, you date it to
20 March 1991 and you ascribe it to me. Is that so, Mr. Mesic?
21 A. Well, if you offered the carving up and division of Bosnia, then
22 it is quite true that in part you did take part in the creation of
the
23 wrong kind of policy.
24 Q. Well, as you well know, I never offered a division of Bosnia nor
25 was that our policy. And if you believe I did so, then please show
me one
Page 10665
1 detail which would be illustrative of that?
2 A. Not only the division of Bosnia. It is sufficient that you paid
3 the army in Bosnia-Herzegovina. It is sufficient to read the book
written
4 by General Veljko Kadijevic, the Federal Secretary for National
Defence,
5 who speaks precisely of the Virovitica-Karlobag-Karlovac border and
that
6 you stood behind that border, Mr. Accused. That same person
Kadijevic,
7 the Federal Secretary for National Defence, Blagoje Adzic, General
Blagoje
8 Adzic, who was the Chief of Staff of the General Staff of the
Yugoslav
9 army, never came to me. They never, ever came to me in the
Presidency,
10 although I embodied the Supreme Command. They never came to see me.
I
11 insisted -- it was I who insisted on going to see them. They never
came
12 to see me. But if you read Boro Jovic and his books and if you read
13 Mamula and his books, if you read Veljko Kadijevic and his books,
you will
14 see that the agreements were only and exclusively made with the
accused.
15 Q. First of all, that is not correct. I don't know what they say in
16 their books. Mamula retired even before the tensions mounted in
Croatia,
17 and later on in Bosnia. But I assume that you are a passionate
reader of
18 all these various books. But now tell me, please: As you were
referring
19 to the HDZ just now, in 1991 it started acting destructively, so
how can
20 you put up with this for a full three years, staying in that
destructive
21 party for three years as its executive chief, that is, as president
of the
22 Executive Board of the HDZ?
23 A. The point is something else. I was the president of the
executive
24 board of the HDZ. Let me tell you -- just a moment. From the 29th
of
25 December, 1991 until the 7th of August, 1992. This is the period in
which
Page 10666
1 I was at the head of the Executive Board of the HDZ. The point is
that as
2 soon as I saw that the policy was not the policy I had advocated, I
could
3 have relinquished it. That is true. However, in Croatia, I would
have
4 been seen as someone who refused to face the problems Croatia was
facing
5 at that moment, and it would have been thought that I had not done
enough
6 to correct the things that were going wrong in Croatia. I hoped that
with
7 those who thought the same way I did, I could correct the HDZ
policy, that
8 we could win. That is why, with other representatives, or rather,
with 23
9 MPs of the Croatian parliament, I discussed our leaving the HDZ.
This was
10 in 1993. In this way, we could have achieved cohabitation. The
11 opposition would have been the strongest in parliament, and HDZ
would have
12 held executive power. Things would have been different had we
succeeded.
13 But unfortunately, I was not successful. Only 11 MPs followed me,
and we
14 had one vote less than we needed to be the majority in parliament.
15 If you want to make a big change, you need to have a critical mass
16 with you. I thought that 23 MPs in parliament would be sufficient.
We
17 did not succeed, but I went over to the opposition. So I cannot
pinpoint
18 a date and say up to that date the policy was right; after that
date, the
19 policy was wrong. There was a continuity of events in politics.
When
20 enough things happen, one responds. My response was to try to
contribute,
21 in a positive way, to a better climate and a better policy in
Croatia.
22 Q. Very well. That was two years after March 1991, when you say
that
23 the destructive policy of the HDZ started. You say that to start
with the
24 HDZ was a democratic party and so on. In the HDZ platform, which I
assume
25 you contributed to, together with the other leaders of the HDZ, you
say
Page 10667
1 that the programme is based, among other things, on the teachings of
Ante
2 Starcevic. Let me just remind you what Ante Starcevic said -- or
rather,
3 wrote about the Serbs. He called the Serbs -- I don't know if this
can be
4 translated. I wouldn't be able to translate it. He called them
filthy
5 spawn, horrible slaves, people who were fit for the axe, Austrian
dogs,
6 inflated bags?
7 JUDGE MAY: When was this kind of thing written?
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Ante Starcevic wrote, for example,
9 in 1870, because the witness based his programme on that of Ante
10 Starcevic, who wrote --
11 JUDGE MAY: You're saying that. The witness hasn't said it. Help
12 us with Mr. Ante Starcevic, who wrote 130 years ago. Was your
programme
13 based on his writings?
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] First of all, I did not create the
15 HDZ platform or programme. It had already been adopted when I
joined the
16 HDZ. Secondly, the teachings of Ante Starcevic do not consist of
17 particular statements that he made under various circumstances.
Ante
18 Starcevic, who is referred to in Croatia as the father of the
homeland,
19 advocated the idea that Croatia had to be independent. He struggled
for
20 the independence of Croatia from Austria and Hungary. In essence,
he was
21 a liberal. On the basis of Croatian state law, he demanded the
22 independence of Croatia. This is the part of his teaching that I
find
23 acceptable, an independent republic of Croatia. This is what was
taken
24 from Starcevic.
25 It was also mentioned, and the accused does not mention this, that
Page 10668
1 the programme was based on the anti-fascist tradition of the peoples
2 liberation struggle. The accused omitted this on purpose, on the
3 traditions of the anti-fascist struggle. So the ideas were not taken
just
4 from one source, but from all sources contributing to a positive
role for
5 Croatia and its citizens. That is why this was referred to in the
6 preamble to the programme. If we are to speak of history, the
accused
7 should say what Vuk Stefanovic Karadzic wrote. He was a Serbian
writer
8 who said that Serbs are all, everyone is a Serb, that the Croats
were
9 nothing but Serbs of Catholic faith, so that all this should be
Serbia.
10 JUDGE MAY: The Trial Chamber is not assisted by the exchange of
11 abuse, particularly abuse a hundred years ago.
12 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
13 Q. Is it true that the HDZ policy became more radical with time and
14 that elements who found inspiration in the Croatian state during
World War
15 II grew stronger? I'm referring to the fascist independent state of
16 Croatia.
17 A. The more attacks were mounted against Croatia and its integrity,
18 more excesses arose, and more and more people referred to the
independent
19 state of Croatia. I was against this. I'm still against this
policy,
20 because in essence I am an anti-fascist, and those are the ideas I
always
21 struggled for.
22 Q. Very well. I asked you about what you said about the HDZ, not
23 about what you say about yourself.
24 A. That's why I left the HDZ.
25 Q. Very well. In any case, I see that as the president of the
* Continued at: http://www.icdsm.org/more/mesic-6.htm
***** Urgent Message from Sloboda (Freedom) Association and the
International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic!
The Freedom Association in Belgrade and the ICDSM, based outside
Yugoslavia, are the two organizations formed at the request of
Slobodan
Milosevic to aid in his defense.
Up until now our main work has been threefold. We have publicized the
truth about The Hague's phony trial. We have organized research to
help President Milosevic expose NATO's lies. And we have initiated
legal action in the Dutch and European Courts.
Now our job has increased. The defense phase of the "trial" starts in
May 2003. No longer will Mr. Milosevic be limited to cross-examining
Hague witnesses. The prosecution will be forced further onto the
defensive as victims of NATO's aggression and experts from Yugoslavia
and
the NATO countries tell what really happened and expose media lies.
Moreover, Mr. Milosevic will call leaders, from East and West, some
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The controlled mass media will undoubtedly try to suppress this
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We urgently need the help of all people who care about what is
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ICDSM, is waging legal battles in the Dutch courts and before the
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need to expand our Dutch facilities, perhaps bringing in a
non-Yugoslav attorney full-time. Definitely we must guarantee that we
have an
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for organizing press conferences.
All this costs money. And for this, we rely on those who want Mr.
Milosevic to have the best possible support for attacking NATO's lies.
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=================================
Slobodan Milosevic's Cross-Examination of
Croatian President Stjepan Mesic: PART V
Because the transcript of the cross-examination
is 150 pages long we have broken it into 12 easy
to read segments. If you wish to read the whole thing
at once go to: http://www.icdsm.org/more/mesic.htm
=================================
Page 10658
1 JUDGE MAY: Just a moment. Just a moment. The witness has said
2 he's telling the truth. Now, don't misrepresent the evidence. If
you've
3 got a question, you can ask it.
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I think that we differ because of
5 the translation in your transcript, where it says nephew, and he
says
6 relative or distant cousin, whereas otherwise there is no
difference.
7 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
8 Q. Now, to get back to what you were just saying, that you had no
9 intentions of any kind, Globus, the paper, this is a special
edition,
10 November 1, 1999, which says the following:
11 "Tudjman was in Canada, paid a state visit to Canada in 1988 and
12 1989 [As interpreted] -- 1998 and 1999, and dovetailed concepts,
first
13 that Croatia had to be independent and autonomous, and so on and so
14 forth. Third, that the Serbs must be brought to the level of a
national
15 minority, which meant that Croatia should have been more or less
16 ethnically pure. And fourth, if there are Serbs in
Bosnia-Herzegovina to
17 the extent that they cannot all be expelled to Serbia, all that
remains is
18 to carve up Bosnia-Herzegovina, which will ensure pure Croatian
regions
19 and certain restructuring, and this would be joined onto an
ethnically
20 pure Croatian state." Isn't that right, Mr. Mesic?
21 A. I don't know who said that.
22 Q. This is something that can be read in Globus about a plan that
was
23 dovetailed in 1988 and 1989 [As interpreted] in Canada with the
Ustasha
24 émigrés. Do you know at all about that?
25 A. I know nothing about that plan whatsoever.
Page 10659
1 Q. All right. Thank you. Now, on the basis of what you were saying
2 a moment ago, is it true and correct that Tudjman considered the
3 territories that belonged to the 1938 banovina, that it should be
annexed
4 to Croatia? Is that what he thought? Is that right or not? Annexed.
5 A. He said that that was what Milosevic had proposed.
6 Q. Just a minute. I'm speaking about something else now. I don't
7 want to show you the transcript once again, but you can look at the
8 transcript from that same trial where you testified and the number
of the
9 transcript line is 7130. But to avoid having to go into private
session,
10 I just want to jog your memory and tell you that you did speak
about the
11 subject at that particular time.
12 And just as like a moment ago, when you challenged the fact that
13 Tudjman thought that for Croatia the best solution would be the
1938
14 banovina solution, also from your testimony, on page 7129 and 7130,
you
15 said what you said. So tell me now: Is it true that the HDZ party
for
16 you was an extremist nationalistic --
17 MR. NICE: If this line of questioning is to be of any value at
18 all --
19 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, Mr. Nice.
20 MR. NICE: If this is to be of any value at all, the following
21 thing should happen: The Chamber will have to go into private
session,
22 not because itself necessarily wants to. It simply that this was
23 protected evidence of another Chamber and we don't have rights to
do
24 anything else. Second, the transcript will then have to be examined
25 properly with the witness being in a position to read it and the
Chamber
Page 10660
1 being able to see the full context.
2 JUDGE MAY: At the moment I do not wish to go into private
3 session. It cuts up the cross-examination, makes it very difficult
for
4 everybody else to follow. If there is a significant point here, no
doubt
5 our attention can be drawn to it.
6 MR. NICE: Can I simply also then ask that the accused reminds me,
7 or through the Chamber, of what page he says its was on which the
first
8 reference was to be found. He says 7266 but it doesn't match my page
9 numbering.
10 JUDGE MAY: That's the note we have, 7266.
11 Mr. Milosevic, you will have -- if you want to quote from the
12 transcript, if there's any significance in what was said earlier,
do you
13 want to quote from the transcript, we have to go into private
session.
14 Those are the rules which we have to follow. Now, if we can avoid
doing
15 that, we should do so.
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. May, but it is not proper
17 and correct that the public should not be able to see this, that
18 Mr. Mesic, for the most part --
19 JUDGE MAY: It doesn't matter about that. It is the Rules which
20 we have to follow. This was private session evidence, therefore it
should
21 be dealt with in private session. Now, do you want to ask anything
more
22 about that transcript or not?
23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. I'll ask him something
24 about -- something else from the transcript in the Dokmanovic
trial, where
25 he wasn't a protected witness.
Page 10661
1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. Is it correct that the HDZ is an extremist nationalistic party
3 which introduced a uniform, unilateral way of thought that captured
people
4 in this way? Is that what you think? And you expressed words to that
5 effect in the Dokmanovic trial, where you were not a protected
witness.
6 The transcript page is 1714 in the testimony against him, and that
is
7 where you made a statement to that effect. You said that that was
your
8 opinion later on, not straight away, not from the very outset. So
when
9 did you come to think that way?
10 JUDGE MAY: Wait a moment. In order that the witness can deal
11 with this properly, have we got a copy of the transcript, Mr. Nice?
First
12 of all, have we got a copy of the transcript.
13 MR. NICE: Yes.
14 JUDGE MAY: Secondly, can the witness follow it?
15 MR. NICE: It's in English, I'm afraid, so he probably can't
16 follow it, because his English is not probably at the level to deal
with
17 that. But we have a copy for Your Honours if Your Honours haven't
seen
18 it.
19 JUDGE MAY: We, we have it here.
20 Mr. Mesic -- I'll deal with it. Mr. Mesic, what is being put to
21 you in the passage which the accused is asking you about is counsel
says,
22 counsel Mr. Fila, put: "We read that for you the HDZ is an
extremist
23 nationalist party, a hindrance to democracy which introduced a
single way
24 of thinking and which robbed the people. Is that what you really
meant?"
25 And you replied: To look at this in terms of the period -- time
period
Page 10662
Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the
French and English transcripts.
Page 10663
1 involved. "Okay," said witness. "Have you said something like this?"
2 And you replied: "The statement of yours calls for clarification,
namely,
3 when the HDZ was established first, when I was its member, when its
4 programme was elaborated, that was a party that was in favour of a
5 multiparty system for democratisation of free society. When the
balance
6 of political forces in the HDZ changed, I left the HDZ and I became
7 critical of the policy."
8 So counsel then put: That is to say that this statement,
9 obviously referring to his earlier statement, is from the latter
period.
10 And you replied: Yes, from the latter period.
11 Now, you're being asked about the comment that the HDZ was or
12 became an extreme nationalist party, a hindrance to democracy,
introducing
13 a single way of thinking. Can you help us as to whether you said
that,
14 and if you wish to elaborate on it, do.
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] When the HDZ was formed, just like
16 the other parties in Croatia, after the socialist model, I wanted
to have
17 a multiparty system. That's what I was in favour of, of a contest
of
18 opinion of democracy. That's what I wanted. Now, as the threats
were
19 coming from Serbia, threats which the accused himself, via his
rallies,
20 was sending out to Croatia, and they were coming from Vojvodina,
from
21 Serbia, and from Kosovo, the so-called rallies for truth, where it
was
22 stated that the people attending the rallies would go as far as
Ljubljana
23 and that what they would do was to stop over in Zagreb, topple the
24 government there, and carry on by way of passing. I considered that
the
25 HDZ could mobilise in Croatia people for setting up resistance to
that
Page 10664
1 kind of policy on the part of Milosevic, and I joined the HDZ
because I
2 considered that we would be able to protect the interests of the
Republic
3 of Croatia. However, because of the erroneous policy which prevailed
4 later on, or rather, the erroneous policy towards and vis-a-vis
5 Bosnia-Herzegovina, the wrong model of privatisation which was seen
and
6 the insufficient functioning of the rule of law in the country, the
7 insufficient functioning of the institutions inherent in the rule of
law,
8 I left that policy behind. I stepped down from it, because finally I
9 could still go on being the president of the Sabor parliament. I had
to
10 take part in that policy and politics. But as I did not agree with
the
11 policies, I left the post of president of parliament and joined the
12 opposition.
13 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
14 Q. Mr. Mesic, you relinquished the post of president of parliament,
15 as you said a moment ago, only after the first quarter of 1994.
However,
16 the destructive policy of the HDZ, according to you, began already
in
17 March 1991; isn't that so?
18 A. Yes, you're quite right. From your agreement in Karadjordjevo.
19 Q. So you ascribe the destructive policy of the HDZ, you date it to
20 March 1991 and you ascribe it to me. Is that so, Mr. Mesic?
21 A. Well, if you offered the carving up and division of Bosnia, then
22 it is quite true that in part you did take part in the creation of
the
23 wrong kind of policy.
24 Q. Well, as you well know, I never offered a division of Bosnia nor
25 was that our policy. And if you believe I did so, then please show
me one
Page 10665
1 detail which would be illustrative of that?
2 A. Not only the division of Bosnia. It is sufficient that you paid
3 the army in Bosnia-Herzegovina. It is sufficient to read the book
written
4 by General Veljko Kadijevic, the Federal Secretary for National
Defence,
5 who speaks precisely of the Virovitica-Karlobag-Karlovac border and
that
6 you stood behind that border, Mr. Accused. That same person
Kadijevic,
7 the Federal Secretary for National Defence, Blagoje Adzic, General
Blagoje
8 Adzic, who was the Chief of Staff of the General Staff of the
Yugoslav
9 army, never came to me. They never, ever came to me in the
Presidency,
10 although I embodied the Supreme Command. They never came to see me.
I
11 insisted -- it was I who insisted on going to see them. They never
came
12 to see me. But if you read Boro Jovic and his books and if you read
13 Mamula and his books, if you read Veljko Kadijevic and his books,
you will
14 see that the agreements were only and exclusively made with the
accused.
15 Q. First of all, that is not correct. I don't know what they say in
16 their books. Mamula retired even before the tensions mounted in
Croatia,
17 and later on in Bosnia. But I assume that you are a passionate
reader of
18 all these various books. But now tell me, please: As you were
referring
19 to the HDZ just now, in 1991 it started acting destructively, so
how can
20 you put up with this for a full three years, staying in that
destructive
21 party for three years as its executive chief, that is, as president
of the
22 Executive Board of the HDZ?
23 A. The point is something else. I was the president of the
executive
24 board of the HDZ. Let me tell you -- just a moment. From the 29th
of
25 December, 1991 until the 7th of August, 1992. This is the period in
which
Page 10666
1 I was at the head of the Executive Board of the HDZ. The point is
that as
2 soon as I saw that the policy was not the policy I had advocated, I
could
3 have relinquished it. That is true. However, in Croatia, I would
have
4 been seen as someone who refused to face the problems Croatia was
facing
5 at that moment, and it would have been thought that I had not done
enough
6 to correct the things that were going wrong in Croatia. I hoped that
with
7 those who thought the same way I did, I could correct the HDZ
policy, that
8 we could win. That is why, with other representatives, or rather,
with 23
9 MPs of the Croatian parliament, I discussed our leaving the HDZ.
This was
10 in 1993. In this way, we could have achieved cohabitation. The
11 opposition would have been the strongest in parliament, and HDZ
would have
12 held executive power. Things would have been different had we
succeeded.
13 But unfortunately, I was not successful. Only 11 MPs followed me,
and we
14 had one vote less than we needed to be the majority in parliament.
15 If you want to make a big change, you need to have a critical mass
16 with you. I thought that 23 MPs in parliament would be sufficient.
We
17 did not succeed, but I went over to the opposition. So I cannot
pinpoint
18 a date and say up to that date the policy was right; after that
date, the
19 policy was wrong. There was a continuity of events in politics.
When
20 enough things happen, one responds. My response was to try to
contribute,
21 in a positive way, to a better climate and a better policy in
Croatia.
22 Q. Very well. That was two years after March 1991, when you say
that
23 the destructive policy of the HDZ started. You say that to start
with the
24 HDZ was a democratic party and so on. In the HDZ platform, which I
assume
25 you contributed to, together with the other leaders of the HDZ, you
say
Page 10667
1 that the programme is based, among other things, on the teachings of
Ante
2 Starcevic. Let me just remind you what Ante Starcevic said -- or
rather,
3 wrote about the Serbs. He called the Serbs -- I don't know if this
can be
4 translated. I wouldn't be able to translate it. He called them
filthy
5 spawn, horrible slaves, people who were fit for the axe, Austrian
dogs,
6 inflated bags?
7 JUDGE MAY: When was this kind of thing written?
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Ante Starcevic wrote, for example,
9 in 1870, because the witness based his programme on that of Ante
10 Starcevic, who wrote --
11 JUDGE MAY: You're saying that. The witness hasn't said it. Help
12 us with Mr. Ante Starcevic, who wrote 130 years ago. Was your
programme
13 based on his writings?
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] First of all, I did not create the
15 HDZ platform or programme. It had already been adopted when I
joined the
16 HDZ. Secondly, the teachings of Ante Starcevic do not consist of
17 particular statements that he made under various circumstances.
Ante
18 Starcevic, who is referred to in Croatia as the father of the
homeland,
19 advocated the idea that Croatia had to be independent. He struggled
for
20 the independence of Croatia from Austria and Hungary. In essence,
he was
21 a liberal. On the basis of Croatian state law, he demanded the
22 independence of Croatia. This is the part of his teaching that I
find
23 acceptable, an independent republic of Croatia. This is what was
taken
24 from Starcevic.
25 It was also mentioned, and the accused does not mention this, that
Page 10668
1 the programme was based on the anti-fascist tradition of the peoples
2 liberation struggle. The accused omitted this on purpose, on the
3 traditions of the anti-fascist struggle. So the ideas were not taken
just
4 from one source, but from all sources contributing to a positive
role for
5 Croatia and its citizens. That is why this was referred to in the
6 preamble to the programme. If we are to speak of history, the
accused
7 should say what Vuk Stefanovic Karadzic wrote. He was a Serbian
writer
8 who said that Serbs are all, everyone is a Serb, that the Croats
were
9 nothing but Serbs of Catholic faith, so that all this should be
Serbia.
10 JUDGE MAY: The Trial Chamber is not assisted by the exchange of
11 abuse, particularly abuse a hundred years ago.
12 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
13 Q. Is it true that the HDZ policy became more radical with time and
14 that elements who found inspiration in the Croatian state during
World War
15 II grew stronger? I'm referring to the fascist independent state of
16 Croatia.
17 A. The more attacks were mounted against Croatia and its integrity,
18 more excesses arose, and more and more people referred to the
independent
19 state of Croatia. I was against this. I'm still against this
policy,
20 because in essence I am an anti-fascist, and those are the ideas I
always
21 struggled for.
22 Q. Very well. I asked you about what you said about the HDZ, not
23 about what you say about yourself.
24 A. That's why I left the HDZ.
25 Q. Very well. In any case, I see that as the president of the
* Continued at: http://www.icdsm.org/more/mesic-6.htm
***** Urgent Message from Sloboda (Freedom) Association and the
International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic!
The Freedom Association in Belgrade and the ICDSM, based outside
Yugoslavia, are the two organizations formed at the request of
Slobodan
Milosevic to aid in his defense.
Up until now our main work has been threefold. We have publicized the
truth about The Hague's phony trial. We have organized research to
help President Milosevic expose NATO's lies. And we have initiated
legal action in the Dutch and European Courts.
Now our job has increased. The defense phase of the "trial" starts in
May 2003. No longer will Mr. Milosevic be limited to cross-examining
Hague witnesses. The prosecution will be forced further onto the
defensive as victims of NATO's aggression and experts from Yugoslavia
and
the NATO countries tell what really happened and expose media lies.
Moreover, Mr. Milosevic will call leaders, from East and West, some
friendly and some hostile to the truth.
The controlled mass media will undoubtedly try to suppress this
testimony as they have tried to suppress Mr. Milosevic's
cross-examinations. Nevertheless this phase of the "trial" will be the
biggest international forum ever to expose NATO's use of racism,
violence and lies to attack Yugoslavia.
We urgently need the help of all people who care about what is
happening in The Hague. Right now, Nico Steijnen , the Dutch lawyer in
the
ICDSM, is waging legal battles in the Dutch courts and before the
European Court, about which more news soon. These efforts urgently
require financial support. We now maintain a small staff of Yugoslav
lawyers in Holland, assisting and advising Mr. Milosevic full-time. We
need to expand our Dutch facilities, perhaps bringing in a
non-Yugoslav attorney full-time. Definitely we must guarantee that we
have an
office and office manager available at all times, to compile and
process evidence and for meetings with witnesses and lawyers and as a
base
for organizing press conferences.
All this costs money. And for this, we rely on those who want Mr.
Milosevic to have the best possible support for attacking NATO's lies.
************
Here's how you can help...
************
* You may contribute by credit card. By the end of September we will
have an ICDSM secure server so you can contribute directly on the
Internet.
For now, you can contribute by credit card in two ways: *
You can Contribute by Credit Card over the Telephone by calling:
ICDSM office, USA: 1 617 916-1705
SLOBODA (Freedom) Association office, Belgrade: 381 63 279 819
You can Contribute using PayPal at:
https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=icdsm%40aol.com
PayPal accepts VISA and MasterCard
You can Contribute by mail to:
ICDSM
831 Beacon St., #295
Newton Centre, MA 02459 (USA)
- OR -
You can Contribute by wire transfer to Sloboda Association
Intermediary:
UBS AG
Zurich, Switzerland
Swift Code: UBSWCHZH
Account with:
/ 756 - CHF
/ 840 - USD
/ 978 - EUR
Kmercijalna Banka AD
SV. Save 14, 11000 Belgrade, FR Yugoslavia
Swift Code: KOBBYUBG
Beneficiary: Account No. 5428-1246-16154-6
SLOBODA
Rajiceva 16, 11000 Belgrade, FR Yugoslavia
Thank you!
http://www.icdsm.org
