Questo testo in formato HTML:
http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/crj-mailinglist/files/vola_16_11.html
Questo testo in formato WORD (volantino):
http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/crj-mailinglist/files/vola_16_11.doc


--- CONVEGNO ---


Coordinamento Nazionale per la Jugoslavia
Italijanska Koordinacija za Jugoslaviju

Trieste 16 novembre 2002 ore 10.30
(Trattoria sociale di Contovello-Trieste, Contovello 152)

Convegno


Sulle macerie del Muro di Berlino parlavano di pace e di progresso.
In tutti questi anni abbiamo visto invece solamente un crescendo di
guerre e di miserie: dall'Iraq all'Afghanistan alla Palestina, per
ritornare di nuovo all'Iraq

... PASSANDO SEMPRE PER LA JUGOSLAVIA...

In Jugoslavia, al centro dell'Europa, l'aggressione e' stata
inininterrotta e la spoliazione procede oggi a gonfie vele. Quale e'
la vera situazione economica e sociale sul terreno, al di la' della
disinformazione o dell'omerta' dei mass-media? Come far procedere le
tante iniziative di solidarieta' verso la popolazione bombardata?


Interventi programmati:

* Igor Canciani (PRC Trieste): Introduzione al convegno
* Andrea Catone (CNJ / Most za Beograd, Bari): "Imperialismo e
guerre: l'aggressione alla RFJ"
* Gordana Pavlovic (Ass. Decja Istina, Belgrado): "La situazione
sociale nella RFJ due anni dopo il 5-10-2000"
* Vladimir Kapuralin (Partito Socialista Operaio, Pola): "La
situazione economica e sociale nelle repubbliche ex-jugoslave oggi. Il
caso croato"
* Lino Anelli (CGIL Lombardia): "Il caso Zastava"
* Fabio Sebastiani (Liberazione, Roma): "Le iniziative di
solidarieta'"
* Renato Kneipp (CGIL Trieste): "L'immigrazione jugoslava a Trieste"
* Ivan Pavicevac (CNJ / "Voce Jugoslava" su Radio Citta' Aperta,
Roma): "La disinformazione di guerra: il caso jugoslavo"

Presiede: Gilberto Vlaic (CNJ / ZASTAVA Trieste)

Organizzano:
Coordinamento Nazionale per Jugoslavia, Gruppo ZASTAVA Trieste
Partecipa:
PRC - Federazione di Trieste

L'iniziativa durera' tutta la giornata.
C'e' la possibilita' di pranzare in loco a prezzi modici (si prega di
prenotare al numero: 040-225168)

Per ulteriori informazioni:
338-9116688 - 339-6587490 - <jugocoord@l...>

Coordinamento Nazionale per la Jugoslavia - https://www.cnj.it/
Gruppo ZASTAVA Trieste - http://digilander.libero.it/zastavatrieste/


--- INFORMAZIONI LOGISTICHE ---


Coordinamento Nazionale per la Jugoslavia
Italijanska Koordinacija za Jugoslaviju

Trieste 16 novembre 2002 ore 10.30
(Trattoria sociale di Contovello-Trieste, Contovello 152)


Convegno: "... PASSANDO SEMPRE PER LA JUGOSLAVIA..."


INFORMAZIONI LOGISTICHE


Per chi arriva in macchina:

Dall'autostrada, passato il casello di Monfalcone, si percorrono altri
6-7 Km circa di superstrada verso Trieste. Si esce allo svincolo di
Sgonico.
Prendere a sinistra in direzione Trieste; dopo un chilometro circa si
entra a Prosecco; in centro paese girare a destra per Trieste e dopo
500 metri si e' a Contovello, di fronte alla Trattoria Sociale /
Drustvena Gostilna di Contovello / Kontovel. Chiunque sia del posto sa
indicarla.
Per chi viene da Fernetti: uscire a Prosecco e seguire le indicazioni
Prosecco/Contovello, poi come sopra.

Per chi arriva in treno:

Gli autobus urbani per arrivare a Contovello sono il 42 e il 44 con
capolinea in piazza Oberdan, a circa 300 metri dalla stazione
ferroviaria. Il tragitto dura circa 15 minuti. Chiedere all'autista di
scendere alla Trattoria Sociale di Contovello.
Partenze autobus n. 42 da Piazza Oberdan:
8.25 8.40 9.05 9.50 10.30 11.10 11.50
Partenze autobus n. 44 da Piazza Oberdan:
8.45 9.25 10.05 10.45 11.25

Per chi dovesse pernottare:

Di seguito riportiamo la lista delle pensioni economiche con qualche
disponibilita' di posti per la notte del 15 e/o per la notte del 16;
chi dovesse prenotare deve farlo con urgenza. Le pensioni sono tutte
vicinissime alla stazione e a Piazza Oberdan.

Nuovo Albergo Centro
Via Roma 11, tel. 040-3478790
(solo camere doppie: 42 euro senza bagno, 62 con bagno)

Rittmeyer
Via de Rittmeyer 2, tel. 040-762233
(24 euro singola senza bagno, 40 doppia senza bagno, 55 doppia con
bagno)

Affittacamere
Via Roma 13, tel. 040-636249
(26 euro singola senza bagno, 40 doppia senza bagno)

C'e' poi l'Ostello della Gioventu', a circa mezzora di autobus dalla
Stazione Centrale. Attenzione! L'Ostello chiude alle 23:30, l'ultimo
autobus che lo collega alla citta' termina il servizio attorno alle
21:00.

Ostello Tergeste
Viale Miramare 331, tel. 040-567722.
Costo 12 euro + 5.5 euro (tessera)


---

1. From "SLOBODA" Association, 2/11/2002
2. ICTY Responsible for life and health of President Milosevic (3/11)
3. Milosevic exhausted, war crimes trial adjourned (DW 1/11)
4. Milosevic trial halted as health worry grows (Reuters 1/11)
5. Judges say Milosevic's ill health threatens war crimes trial (AFP
1/11)
6. Milosevic complains about closed court sessions (AFP 23/10)


AN IMPORTANT INFORMATION FROM "SLOBODA" ASSOCIATION:

Subject: Information on our web sites
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:08:47 +0100
From: "Vladimir Krsljanin" <vlada@...>

Message from SLOBODA (Freedom) Association - Yugoslav Committee for
the Defense of Slobodan Milosevic:

Due to enormous financial difficulties that follow our work in
assisting struggle of President Milosevic at The Hague for freedom,
truth and dignity of his people, all our web sites are temporarily
disconnected.

Thanks to many hours of work of ICDSM members and supporters in USA,
the web site of the International Committee to Defend Slobodan
Milosevic has been reconstructed and can now be reached at the
following temporary address:

http://emperor.vwh.net/icdsm/index.htm

If you are able to help our struggle by your donations, please go to:

http://emperor.vwh.net/icdsm/donations.htm


=== 1 ===


Subject: STOP THE MURDER! FREE MILOSEVIC! corrected
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:39:45 +0100
From: "Vladimir Krsljanin" <vlada@...>


On Thursday, October 31, evening, President Slobodan Milosevic
suffered one of the sudden high increases of blood pressure,
characteristic for his illness (malignant hypertension + angina
pectoris). After that he felt so sick, that he couldn't attend the
"trial" next morning.

SUCH AN EVENT CAN CAUSE HIS DEATH!
President Slobodan Milosevic, national leader of Serbia and Yugoslavia
and hero of resistance to USA/NATO murderous war machinery is being
killed at The Hague by dungeon prison conditions, already nine months
of a pervert political trial, mountains of papers, lack of fresh air,
food, rest, physical activity, meetings with family and friends, any
facilities to prepare his extraordinary court room battle. He is being
killed also by total absence of medical care!
Here are the comments of the executioner "judge" May, according to
Reuters:

``He has complained of exhaustion and is being seen by a doctor this
morning and a report will be obtained,'' presiding judge Richard May
told the U.N. court in Milosevic's absence.

``In the light of the state of the accused's health and the length and
complexity of the case, the trial chamber is concerned about
completion of the trial,'' said May, one of three judges hearing the
case.

``Therefore we wish to have submission from the parties on the future
conduct of the case in order to ensure its expeditious conclusion. We
wish to have those submissions within seven days,'' he told
prosecutors and court officials.
Let these seven days be days of public fight for life of President
Milosevic!

President Milosevic has to be allowed to get specialized medical
treatment in Belgrade, until full recovery, by doctors who took care
about his health for years.

Perform every possible action!

Write to NATO puppet court ("International Criminal Tribunal for
Former Yugoslavia", "ICTY", fax +3170 512 8637) and tell them what you
mean!

Lawyers are invited to write to the "ICTY President" Claude Jorda and
"President of Trial Chamber III" Richard May, as well as to their
friends "Amici Curiae" Steven Kay and Branislav Tapuskovic (using the
same fax) and to tell them how they see "the future conduct of the
case"!

This morning SLOBODA (Freedom) - Yugoslav Committee for the defense of
Slobodan Milosevic wrote to "ICTY" the following:

---

Mr. Claude Jorda, President
Mr. Richard May, President
of the Trial Chamber III
ICTY
The Hague
The Netherlands


The actual deterioration of the health of Mr. Slobodan Milosevic, long
time President of the Republic of Serbia and of the Federal Republic
of Yugoslavia is a direct and dramatic consequence of the way the
process has been conducted and of the fact that you have neglected the
recommendations of the physicians appointed by ICTY in order to
determine the state of Mr. President's health.

Even after of numerous warnings that, considering the state of health
of President Milosevic, detention conditions and rhythm and conduct of
the process can cause his death, you still continue to conduct your
political process in the same way. We remain you and warn you once
again that eminent Yugoslav cardiologists have concluded in their
objective and impartial expertise, which got consent of the physicians
appointed by you, that the way this political process has been
conducted represent a threat to the life of President Milosevic.

In spite the claim that ICTY is an international court of UN, you in
severest way violate the Resolutions and documents of the UN General
Assembly, related to health of persons in custody.

The first principle of the Resolution 3794 on the principles of
medical ethics, adopted by the UN General Assembly on December 18,
1982, establishes an obligation to protect prisoners or detainees from
torture and other cruel, inhumane or humiliating sanctions or
behavior. The same Resolution obliges you to secure the medical
treatment of the same quality and based on same standards as for the
persons who are not in prison or in detention. But in violation to
that, you have not provided President Milosevic with medical therapy
nor even with medical care of the same quality and based on same
standards as for persons who are not in detention. This way you also
violate the Article 6 of the Codex of behavior of persons responsible
for application of the Law, adopted by UN General Assembly on December
17, 1979.

In addition to violation of the mentioned Resolutions, you also
violate your own Statute, namely its Article 21, point 4b, which
obliges you to provide every defendant with appropriate time and
facilities for preparation of his defense.

The astonishing rhythm of this political process, purpose of which is
not determination of the truth, but total endangering of the health of
President Milosevic, leads us to a conclusion that the fatal outcome
is your intention.

Experience with other persons in detention who faced dramatic
deterioration of heath or even loss of life, is also obliging you to
decide to allow Slobodan Milosevic to obtain medical therapy and
recovery in Belgrade by medical specialists who followed his health
condition for years, due to existence of special circumstances and to
resume the process after the improvement of his health.

We warn you that it is your obligation to harmonize your Rules and
practices with all UN documents on human rights protection, as well as
with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

Belgrade, November 02, 2002

President of the Freedom Association -
Yugoslav Committee for the Defense of Slobodan Milosevic
Bogoljub Bjelica


=== 2 ===


Subject: WHAT DO THEY DO TO HIM
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:34:21 +0100
From: "Vladimir Krsljanin" <vlada@...>


ICTY Responsible for life and health of President Milosevic


The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY)
in The Hague is directly endangering the life and basic human rights
of President Slobodan Milosevic.

The long-term president of Serbia and the Federal Republic of
Yugoslavia, founder and chairman of the Socialist Party of Serbia,
Slobodan Milosevic is held in the ICTY's detention unit under
conditions that could rightly be considered torture. President
Milosevic' cell is small, without access to natural air, and has a low
level of overall sanitation. He can only use the public telephone, and
pays for all his calls. He has been forced to attend the trial every
weekday for the past nine months (though with a recess in August). His
workday begins around 7 AM. He endures humiliating procedures during
transport from the detention unit to ICTY chambers and back. The trial
takes place between 9 AM and 4:30 PM. During the lunch break, he is
confined to the ICTY basement, and can only eat a sandwich. He is back
at the detention unit by 6 PM, and then he must choose between dinner
and a short walk in fresh air. Thereafter, till late at night, he
prepares for the next day of the trial.

For the remainder of prosecution's case, which is scheduled to end in
May 2003, he has to review over 100.000 pages of text and over 600
videotapes submitted by the prosecution. The length of the trial and
the amount of materials he has received are irrelevant to the
indictment, and their primary purpose is to wear out President
Milosevic.
His legal assistant cannot visit him on weekends. Unlike other
prisoners, who are allowed to see their families every day, and even
unsupervised, Mr. Milosevic can see his family only once a month, for
2-3 days, and always in under supervision. All other visits to
President Milosevic are subject to exceptional restrictions as well.

President Milosevic suffers from malignant hypertension and ischemical
myocardiopathy (angina pectoris). Psychological and physical exertions
to which he is subjected, combined with poor living conditions, can
easily lead to a heart attack, stroke, even sudden death. Even so, the
President not only lack specialised medical care, he lacks any medical
care at all. After numerous appeals and requests from Belgrade, and
after his full medical files have been sent to the ICTY, the trial
chamber approved a medical check-up. This happened only once, on July
11, 2002, and was performed by Dutch general practitioners approved by
the ICTY. The physicians nonetheless confirmed that the President's
living and working conditions represent a risk to his life and health,
and that it would be necessary to reduce the exertions to which he was
subjected, and provide a check-up and care by a cardiologist.
The trial chamber considered their report and recommendations on July
25 and August 26, 2002, and concluded that they should not be
implemented to the letter, but "in spirit".

However, to the present day, no cardiologist has been allowed to
examine President Milosevic, while the trial - previously adjourned by
2PM - has again been extended to 4:30 PM every day.

All of this indicates that the trial is but an organized attempt to
murder President Milosevic. Only his release, followed by medical care
and recuperation in Belgrade under supervision of specialists who have
treated and monitored his health for years, as well as his ability to
defend himself as a free man in the later on continued process, could
remove further risks to President Milosevic's life and secure the
elementary equality of the trial.

Beograd, 31 October 2002.


=== 3 ===


http://dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1429_W_667135,00.html

DEUTSCHE WELLE

01.11.2002 11:00 UTC

Milosevic exhausted, war crimes trial adjourned

Judges at Slobodan Milosevic's war crimes trial in The Hague have
expressed concern about completing the case against him after a
hearing was adjourned because he complained of exhaustion. The
ex-Yugoslav leader, who has been advised by doctors to rest regularly
because of high blood pressure, has been defending himself since
February against charges of genocide and ethnic cleansing in the
Balkans in the 1990s. Presiding judge Richard May told the United
Nations court Milosevic is being seen by a doctor and a report will be
obtained.


=== 4 ===


http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;
jsessionid=1XDPLALN4PC4KCRBAEKSFEY?type=search&StoryID=1667323

Milosevic trial halted as health worry grows
Last Updated: November 01, 2002 07:51 AM ET

THE HAGUE (Reuters) - Slobodan Milosevic's trial has ground to a halt
after he complained of exhaustion, with judges concerned about the
impact of his ailing health on Europe's biggest war crimes hearing
since World War Two.

The 61-year-old ex-Yugoslav leader, who has been advised by doctors to
rest regularly because of high blood pressure, has been defending
himself at The Hague since February against charges of ethnic
cleansing in the Balkans in the 1990s.

Judges at the U.N. court adjourned Friday's hearing within a matter of
minutes after announcing Milosevic would not be taking his seat in the
dock because he had complained of exhaustion at the end of a week of
vigorous cross-examination.

"He has complained of exhaustion and is being seen by a doctor this
morning and a report will be obtained," presiding judge Richard May
told the court in Milosevic's absence.

TRIAL STRESSES RAISE CONCERNS

The landmark trial for genocide and crimes against humanity has been
adjourned several times since it opened more than eight months ago
because of Milosevic's health problems.

"In the light of the state of the accused's health and the length and
complexity of the case, the trial chamber is concerned about
completion of the trial," said May, one of a panel of three
international judges hearing the case.

Judges have urged prosecutors and Milosevic to deal quickly and
efficiently with the huge volume of evidence and testimony in a case
drawing on thousands of documents, videos, photographs and maps
covering three conflicts over almost a decade.

"The judges are not intimating that the trial itself is in jeopardy.
What they are concerned about is that there are stresses on all
participants in a trial of this scope and this length," tribunal
spokesman Jim Landale said.

Judge May asked the prosecution and a team of independent lawyers
appointed to ensure Milosevic gets a fair trial to come up with
proposals within a week to streamline the hearings.

"We were working within the framework given to the court by the trial
chamber already with very tough conditions," prosecution spokeswoman
Florence Hartmann said in response to judge May's request.

One of Milosevic's legal advisers called for a shorter trial day in
response to his client's poor health. The trial often runs from around
9 a.m. to 4 p.m., taking in hours of cross-examination, detailed
evidence and complex legal argument.

"Since yesterday evening he has been feeling very, very bad. He's got
very high blood-pressure. He can't be in court to do the cross
examination," Dragoslav Ognjanovic said.

"His blood pressure and his health condition is due to the exhausting
pace of the trial," he said. Milosevic's wife Mira Markovic and his
family were also worried, Ognjanovic added.

THE "BOSS"

Milosevic, who has dismissed as lies the charges he faces, earlier
this week locked horns with a Serb ex-secret agent, who told the court
the accused was the undisputed "Boss" in Belgrade in the 1990s.

The former Serb strongman -- charged with 66 counts of human rights
violations in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo -- has made it clear he
considers the charges politically motivated.

Milosevic opted to conduct his own defence in a show of contempt for a
court he does not recognise and spurned advice to appoint a defence
lawyer. He declined to plead to the charges and not guilty pleas were
entered on his behalf by judges.

The trial's first phase, focusing on alleged Serb atrocities in Kosovo
in 1999, ended in September. The court is now hearing evidence from
the 1991-95 conflict in Croatia and Bosnia.

Judges, who have already imposed time restrictions on both sides due
to the enormous scope of the trial, have asked prosecutors to conclude
their whole case over his alleged crimes in Croatia, Bosnia and
Kosovo, by next May.

Milosevic will then launch his defence. The trial is expected to last
at least two years.

The U.N. detention block where Milosevic is held with dozens of other
war crimes suspects from the former Yugoslavia has its own doctor and
medical facilities. The block is inside a Dutch prison compound with
its own hospital.


=== 5 ===


Judges say Milosevic's ill health threatens war crimes trial

THE HAGUE, Nov 1 (AFP) - Judges trying Slobodan Milosevic for war
crimes on Friday voiced concern that the trial might not be completed,
after the former Yugoslav president's poor health again forced a delay
in the proceedings.
"In the light of the state of health of the accused, the length and
the complexity of the case, the chamber is concerned about the best
way to ensure the completion of this trial," presiding judge Richard
May said.
Milosevic, 61, did not appear in court on Friday, complaining of
"extreme fatigue and exhaustion" but the case is scheduled to resume
on Monday.
His trial, on genocide and war crimes charges, has been interrupted
four times since it began in February because he has fellen ill.
Doctors who carried out a full medical check-up in July said he had
high blood pressure and risked having a heart attack.
The court tried to reduce the workload on Milosevic after the last
health warning but even with the time limits imposed on it the case
will take years to complete.
The prosecution has until May 2003 to present its case. Milosevic will
have until at least mid-2004 for his defence.
In court Milosevic, who is facing charges of genocide, war crimes and
crimes against humanity for the 1990s Balkan wars, does not appear to
be a frail old man.
He defends himself vigorously, entering into heated exchanges with
witnesses and sometimes with judges as well. The former Yugoslav
leader likes to play to home audiences with lengthy speeches about the
historical mistreatment of Serbs and alleged western plots against
Belgrade.
Milosevic has refuses to appoint counsel to a court he considers
illegal and is defending himself against a team of 60 members of the
prosecution's 545-strong staff.
He is said to spend nights in his cell poring over court documents and
statements to prepare to cross-examine prosecution witnesses.
On Friday Judge May asked the prosecution and the amici curae --
lawyers appointed to assist the court in the case -- to submit within
seven days proposals on how best to proceed with the trial, taking
into account the defendant's health.
The judges have already suggested the appointment of a defence counsel
could reduce the strain on Milosevic.
He has strongly rejected the idea but legal experts say that the court
can appoint a lawyer for Milosevic against his will.
"The judges have the power to do anything that is necessary to ensure
the proper conduct of a trial and there is a precedent in the Rwanda
war crimes tribunal where counsel was appointed to an unwilling
defendant," Goran Sluiter, a legal expert at the University of
Utrecht, told AFP.
Sluiter expects that Milosevic will fight such an appointment tooth
and nail.
"Milosevic's big fear is to lose his time in court. For him the trial
is just a stage to air his views because he believes it is a show
trial and he will be convicted anyway," Sluiter said.
The court has hinted at a compromise solution -- appointing a defence
lawyer who would only assist during the cross-examination of
witnesses.
But Sluiter does not believe Milosevic will agree to anything that
would take him out of the limelight.
Milosevic faces more than 60 charges of war crimes and crimes against
humanity for his involvement in the wars in Kosovo (1998-99), Croatia
(1991-95) and Bosnia (1992-95).
The former president is also charged with genocide over the ethnic
cleansing of Muslims during the Bosnian war.
If convicted, he could spend the rest of his life behind bars.


=== 6 ===


Milosevic complains about closed court sessions

THE HAGUE, Oct 23 (AFP) - Slobodan Milosevic complained on Wednesday
about the many closed sessions the judges are holding in his war
crimes trial before the tribunal here and described them as remnants
from another time.
"Secret trials stem from a past which nobody can boast about," the
former Yugoslav president told the court.
The war crimes trial of Milosevic, which is currently hearing evidence
about atrocities committed during the 1991-95 war in Croatia, has been
held largely in closed session the last few days with several witness
whose identities are shielded.
During closed sessions the public galleries are closed and the
testimony of the witnesses cannot be revealed.
Milosevic's outburst in court Wednesday came after the judges
reprimanded him for revealing elements of a testimony given in closed
session in one of his questions.
Presiding judge Richard May told the former president that "it is the
chamber that will rule in this case and not the public".
Milosevic is charged with over 60 counts of war crimes and crimes
against humanity for his role in the three conflicts that tore apart
the Balkans in the 1990s: the wars in Croatia (1991-95), the Bosnian
war (1992-95) and the Kosovo conflict (1998-99).
For Bosnia he faces a separate charge of genocide, the gravest of war
crimes.
Milosevic's historical war crimes trial started in February this year
and is expected to continue until at least 2004.

International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic
http://www.icdsm.org - http://emperor.vwh.net/icdsm/index.htm

=================================
Slobodan Milosevic's Cross-Examination of
Croatian President Stjepan Mesic: PART VI
Because the transcript of the cross-examination
is 150 pages long we have broken it into 12 easy
to read segments. If you wish to read the whole thing
at once go to:
http://www.icdsm.org/more/mesic.htm
OR
http://emperor.vwh.net/icdsm/more/mesic.htm
=================================



Page 10669

1 Presidency of Yugoslavia, you betrayed Yugoslavia and contributed to
its

2 break-up. Then proceeding to betray those with whom you had
collaborated

3 to destroy Yugoslavia. I'm referring to the HDZ and Tudjman. I don't

4 know who is next. Is it true that Tudjman wanted that from the very

5 start, when the HDZ was founded, Tudjman linked it up with the
right-wing

6 factions in Croatia, which includes those who do not conceal the
fact they

7 are Ustasha?

8 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Mesic, before you answer, allegations are made

9 there which you should have a chance to deal with, a series of them.

10 The first is that, as the president of the Presidency of

11 Yugoslavia, you betrayed Yugoslavia and contributed to its
break-up. Did

12 you regard yourself as betraying Yugoslavia?

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] When I was elected to the Presidency

14 of Yugoslavia, I believed that I would help to resolve the Yugoslav
crisis

15 by political means, that I could contribute to avoiding the war. My

16 proposal to the Presidency was that we should adopt a fully
confederal

17 system and that the confederation should be given a time limit,
three to

18 five years, that the republics should be declared independent, that
the

19 republics should be internationally recognised, that they should
recognise

20 each other, and thereby be recognised by the international
community, and

21 that on the day when the Federation ceased to exist, a
confederation be

22 established. Why? Because everyone was dissatisfied with
Yugoslavia.

23 Serbia claimed that it was being exploited. Serbia claimed that
they were

24 the ones who funded others. Croatia was saying that its hard
currency was

25 being siphoned off to Belgrade. If everybody was dissatisfied, why
not

Page 10670

Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the
French and English
transcripts.

Page 10671

1 adopt a new model? My proposal was to have a confederation and to

2 establish what tasks the confederation would perform, how much this
would

3 cost, and what the key to the budget would be, to the financing of
this.

4 Serbia never expressed its view on this proposal. Instead of this,

5 Milosevic proposed a strong federation. That is what happened to
Kosovo

6 and Vojvodina, that this should happen everywhere. We could not
agree to

7 this. But I was in favour of negotiations. I thought that it was
better

8 to negotiate for ten years rather than to wage war for ten days.
Some

9 people were in favour of the war option, and Slobodan Milosevic was

10 certainly one of those.

11 But what could I have done in Belgrade? Who could I have

12 influenced? The generals contacted Milosevic, the army executed
what

13 Milosevic's regime wanted, the creation of a greater Serbia,
because he

14 was saying that the Serbs should remain in one state. That is the
part

15 that was to become Yugoslavia and to be taken from Croatia. That's
what

16 General Veljko Kadijevic says in his book, and he was the Secretary
for

17 National Defence.

18 Therefore, therefore, the army, when it had been made into a

19 Serbian army, when the Croats, the Slovenians, the Macedonians and
others

20 had left, when it had become a Serbian army, it was to perform the
job of

21 setting up new borders, and the one who was perpetrating that plan
was the

22 one who was destroying the Federation. I wanted to search for a
political

23 solution through constitutional means. I had two secretaries, an
advisor,

24 and a Chef de Cabinet, and they were the only people I could
influence. I

25 have to say they were all Serbs. Who else could I have influenced,
and

Page 10672

1 how could I have toppled Yugoslavia? Was it I who did it or was it
the

2 person who had the Yugoslav army at his disposal, which had been

3 transformed into a Serbian army?

4 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

5 Q. Mr. Mesic, that all the peoples of Yugoslavia should live in one

6 state pertained to Yugoslavia and that the Serbs in Yugoslavia lived
in

7 one state was one of the reasons why Serbia wanted Yugoslavia to be

8 preserved, and that is the only thing that you can quote me on
saying, not

9 anybody else. And you're making this up, just like others have along
the

10 same lines.

11 I asked you the following: Tudjman wanted a Croatian state at all

12 costs, and from the very inception of the HDZ, he firmly relied on
the

13 most radical right-wing, which consisted of the most drastic
Ustasha; is

14 that right?

15 A. That's not true. Increasingly radical elements started joining

16 the party and then I left the party.

17 Q. You say in your interview to the AIM and the question was why
did

18 Tudjman from the very inception of the HDZ so strongly rely on the
radical

19 right wing in which there are some clear-cut Ustasha. You say that
you

20 were powerless, that these were forces that were more powerful than
you

21 and that Tudjman went along with them and that the forces that you

22 represented were different, and you say that he relied on these
extremist

23 forces and he believed that they would be his friends in war, and
that

24 after the war he would manage to neutralise them. That was your

25 explanation. Is that right or is that not right, Mr. Mesic?

Page 10673

1 A. I think that I answered that question at the very outset. The HDZ

2 was a democratic party and now the question is what this journalist
meant

3 by the very outset. Which outset?

4 Q. All right. You explained that this was from March 1991 after the

5 meeting in Karadjordjevo. That is your interpretation of the
situation,

6 and we are not going to dwell on that. However, you did remain in
that

7 same HDZ for another three years and now you're attacking it.

8 A. 1991 until the end of 1992 cannot be three by any kind of

9 arithmetic. So there seems to be some kind of erroneous arithmetic

10 involved.

11 Q. Is it true that it was Tudjman's view that Bosnia was a mistake,

12 that it was a mistake to make it as a republic after the Second
World War

13 and that it should be annexed to Croatia? Is that right or is that
not

14 right?

15 A. Those were his ideas, that Bosnia was supposed to belong to

16 Croatia on the basis of a decision that should have been adopted by
Avnoj.

17 That's what we discussed, because we were both in opposition, both
Tudjman

18 and I were MPs in the Croatian parliament in 1965.

19 Q. All right. Is it true that it is precisely in Zagreb that

20 deportations of the population of Bosnia were discussed? Or as you
had

21 put it, the humane resettlement of the population and basically
this was

22 ethnic cleansing. Is this right or is this not right?

23 A. As for humane resettlement, that is something that you talked

24 about and all of those who thought that it was necessary to
transport

25 Croats from Slankamen into Croatia and Serbs into Serbia. I
certainly

Page 10674

1 took no part in that.

2 Q. All right, Mr. Mesic. Let's not dwell on this much longer. I

3 asked you whether you had your own views on this, because in the

4 transcript that I refer to, your opinion is quite obvious. You say
that

5 any person with common sense would realise that this is ethnic
cleansing.

6 A. Well, humanitarian resettlement is actually ethnic cleansing.

7 That is why your detachments came, Dusan Silni, Arkan's guard. All
of

8 them came in order to carry out ethnic cleansing. That is not even

9 humanitarian resettlement.

10 Q. Mr. Mesic, I am referring to your policy, the policy of Croatia.

11 I am not talking about whether anybody from Serbia did any such
thing.

12 Because as you know full well, it is only Serbia that kept its
ethnic

13 composition over the past ten years, and nobody was expelled from
Serbia,

14 not a single house was torched, and nobody was mistreated because
of their

15 ethnic affiliation.

16 A. Except for the fact that in Serbia there were 18 camps where
there

17 were Croatian citizens and they were fleeing from Seselj, the
Croats from

18 Vojvodina were, and they were settling Croat settlements and they
were

19 exchanging their houses for Serb houses. That is the so-called

20 humanitarian resettlement.

21 Q. Mr. Mesic, do you know that there was not a single camp in

22 Yugoslavia, or rather, in Serbia, not for Croats, not for anyone,
not for

23 Croats, not for Muslims, not for anyone.

24 A. Croatia is still looking for over 3.300 of its citizens. Many of

25 them, after Vukovar and after other places where massacres were
committed,

Page 10675

1 were taken to Serbia. We have to know that the Yugoslav army, with

2 paramilitary organisations, which, with the approval of the Serb

3 leadership came to Croatia, destroyed Croatian towns. Why was
Vukovar

4 destroyed? Why were the citizens of Croatia taken to Serbia from
Vukovar?

5 Why were they taken to camps in Serbia? If the president of Serbia
does

6 not know that there were camps in Serbia, then that is the problem
of

7 Serbia.

8 Q. Mr. Mesic, do you know, for example, that when this propaganda

9 started about the existence of camps in Serbia, that various foreign

10 delegations spoke to me about this, people who came on other
business, and

11 they asked me about these camps? And I answered to each and every
one of

12 them: Please feel free to take a helicopter that I have here and
that is

13 ready. Put your finger anywhere on a map and that's where the
helicopter

14 will take you, and you will see that there is nothing of the sort
in

15 Serbia. After a few answers that I gave of this kind, one
delegation, it

16 was a German delegation, asked to go, then pinpointed the mine in

17 Aleksinac on a map. They went there and the only thing they found
was --

18 JUDGE MAY: You're not giving evidence. You can give evidence to

19 us in due course.

20 Mr. Mesic, do you know anything about Mr. Milosevic's dealings

21 with foreign delegations? Have you seen any reports or heard
anything

22 about that?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know about that. I do know

24 that the Yugoslav army, together with paramilitary organisations,
took out

25 of the Vukovar hospital almost 300 persons and that they were all

Page 10676

1 liquidated in Ovcara, near Vukovar. I also know that citizens who
were

2 taken prisoner in that massacre of Vukovar were transported to
Serbia.

3 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

4 Q. First of all, that is not correct. Secondly, please take a look

5 at this map.

6 JUDGE MAY: What are you suggesting happened at Vukovar,

7 Mr. Milosevic, if it's not correct?

8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] It is not correct that anyone from

9 Serbia took citizens from Vukovar to Serbia. It is not correct that
any

10 policy of Serbia's influenced the intensification of the conflict
in the

11 region of Vukovar. What is correct is that it is precisely the
armed

12 detachments of the HDZ that barged into people's homes, into
villages

13 around Vukovar and took Serbs away, arrested them, and so on. They

14 attacked Vukovar --

15 JUDGE MAY: Is it disputed that 300 persons were taken from the

16 hospital to Ovcara and there liquidated? Is that disputed?

17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't have these figures, Mr. May,

18 and I'm not discussing them now. But I shall try to find these
facts and

19 figures and see what kind of facts and figures are available. I can

20 claim, though, that no Serbian authorities had absolutely anything
to do

21 with this, nor did the Serb authorities cause any kind of ethnic
conflicts

22 in Vukovar. Ethnic conflicts in Vukovar were caused by the same
people I

23 quoted a minute ago, those who took people out of their homes in
Zagreb.

24 JUDGE MAY: I've asked you some questions about that. Now, let's

25 move on to matters which the witness can deal with, in particular,
his

Page 10677

1 evidence. Time, as you know, is limited, Mr. Milosevic. We must
allow

2 some time for the amicus to ask any questions that they want this

3 afternoon. And any re-examination, Mr. Nice?

4 MR. NICE: There's likely to be some, yes.

5 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kay, could you help about the amicus?

6 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, there will be questions.

7 JUDGE MAY: How long do you ask for, Mr. Tapuskovic? Can you give

8 us an idea, please?

9 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] It is hard for me to say. I will

10 honour any decision you make, but it seems to me that half an hour
would

11 be absolutely indispensable.

12 JUDGE MAY: We may not be able to give you half an hour, I'm

13 afraid, because time is short. We can extend the sitting this
afternoon

14 until 2.00, unless the Registry have any difficulty about that.
There's

15 another hearing this afternoon, but I anticipate we can sit until
2.00,

16 and we will extend the hearing until then to accommodate as much

17 questioning as we can.

18 But Mr. Milosevic, your time is limited, as you know. So let's

19 move on. If you've got any matters that you want to challenge on
what the

20 witness said in his evidence, you should do so.

21 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. May, of course I am challenging

22 almost everything that the witness said during his testimony. But I

23 assume that it is clear to you that limiting time for the

24 cross-examination of this witness is quite contrary to the need to

25 ascertain the truth. After all, the other party announced that they
would

Page 10678

Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the
French and English
transcripts.

Page 10679

1 examine him for ten hours and then they decreased the number by two
and a

2 half times in order to diminish my ability to cross-examine him.
However,

3 I am going to use the time that is given to me, and you will have to
deal

4 with the fact that you haven't given me enough time.

5 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

6 Q. Mr. Mesic, do you know that there were 221 camps for Serbs in the

7 period between 1991 and 1996 in Croatia? The five that you refer to
in

8 Serbia never existed. And here you have a list of all the 221 camps
for

9 Serbs in Croatia, and also a map that shows where they were and how
many

10 were in different towns and so on. Are you aware of this?

11 A. Regardless of the fact that I have been highly critical in terms

12 of the functioning of rule of law in the state of Croatia until the
year

13 2000, the truth is that there were no camps in Croatia. There were

14 abuses, there were crimes. That is certain. However, unfortunately,
I

15 did not answer the question that had to do with Vukovar. Do I have
to

16 give an answer? I do. Those who carried out liquidations were given

17 decorations and were promoted to the rank of general and other such
ranks.

18 They still live in Belgrade and they are wanted by this Tribunal.
So I'm

19 not the one who is inventing things. The only persons who were not
taken

20 out of Vukovar were those who were liquidated in Ovcara.

21 Q. According to the information I have, no army could have executed

22 or liquidated anyone. You know full well as a citizen of Yugoslavia
until

23 it was broken up and you have --

24 JUDGE MAY: This is a matter which the Trial Chamber, I suspect,

25 is going to have to determine in due course, and it sounds as
though these

* Continued at: http://www.icdsm.org/more/mesic-7.htm
OR http://emperor.vwh.net/icdsm/more/mesic-7.htm



***** Urgent Message from Sloboda (Freedom) Association and the
International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic!

The Freedom Association in Belgrade and the ICDSM, based outside
Yugoslavia, are the two organizations formed at the
request of Slobodan Milosevic to aid in his defense.

Up until now our main work has been threefold. We have publicized the
truth about The Hague's phony trial. We have
organized research to help President Milosevic expose NATO's lies. And
we have initiated legal action in the Dutch and
European Courts.

Now our job has increased. The defense phase of the "trial" starts in
May 2003. No longer will Mr. Milosevic be limited
to cross-examining Hague witnesses. The prosecution will be forced
further onto the defensive as victims of NATO's
aggression and experts from Yugoslavia and the NATO countries tell
what really happened and expose media lies. Moreover,
Mr. Milosevic will call leaders, from East and West, some friendly and
some hostile to the truth.

The controlled mass media will undoubtedly try to suppress this
testimony as they have tried to suppress Mr. Milosevic's
cross-examinations. Nevertheless this phase of the "trial" will be the
biggest international forum ever to expose NATO's
use of racism, violence and lies to attack Yugoslavia.

We urgently need the help of all people who care about what is
happening in The Hague. Right now, Nico Steijnen , the
Dutch lawyer in the ICDSM, is waging legal battles in the Dutch courts
and before the European Court, about which more
news soon. These efforts urgently require financial support. We now
maintain a small staff of Yugoslav lawyers in
Holland, assisting and advising Mr. Milosevic full-time. We need to
expand our Dutch facilities, perhaps bringing in a
non-Yugoslav attorney full-time. Definitely we must guarantee that we
have an office and office manager available at all
times, to compile and process evidence and for meetings with witnesses
and lawyers and as a base for organizing press
conferences.

All this costs money. And for this, we rely on those who want Mr.
Milosevic to have the best possible support for
attacking NATO's lies.

************
Here's how you can help...
************

* You may contribute by credit card. By the end of September we will
have an ICDSM secure server so you can contribute
directly on the Internet.

For now, you can contribute by credit card in two ways: *

You can Contribute by Credit Card over the Telephone by calling:

ICDSM office, USA: 1 617 916-1705
SLOBODA (Freedom) Association office, Belgrade: 381 63 279 819

You can Contribute using PayPal at:
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PayPal accepts VISA and MasterCard

You can Contribute by mail to:
ICDSM
831 Beacon St., #295
Newton Centre, MA 02459 (USA)

- OR -

You can Contribute by wire transfer to Sloboda Association

Intermediary:
UBS AG
Zurich, Switzerland
Swift Code: UBSWCHZH

Account with:
/ 756 - CHF
/ 840 - USD
/ 978 - EUR
Kmercijalna Banka AD
SV. Save 14, 11000 Belgrade, FR Yugoslavia
Swift Code: KOBBYUBG

Beneficiary: Account No. 5428-1246-16154-6
SLOBODA
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Thank you!

http://www.icdsm.org